SMT-SJ: Plot discussions - MASSIVE spoilers

[theo]

[theo]

Okay, here we go:

I'd like to first announce that I have not beaten the game. After getting a second wind to push on in the game, I then proceeded to do pretty well getting through Sector E until my encounter with Ouroboros. I couldn't overcome his auto-healing, even after collecting my fire demons, so I decided that I'm done and proceeded to read the brief plot outline here: .

Anyway, I think I'll have more fun discussing the plot. My first questions:

What pushed Zelinin over the edge to become an angel?

Did Jimenez fuse himself to Bugaboo, or did he ask protagonist to help him do it (that would be cool.)?

Any further details with Gore that the article above didn't really cover?

Thanks!

[Sampson]

Zelenin's fear of demons was probably the largest factor, although she probably craved order, being a scientist (and growing up in Russia).

In Sector F, Jimenez and Bugaboo are being operated on, and the latter is near death. So Jimenez asks the protagonist to fuse them together.

Gore is the "ubergastdsfdblablahblah" or something, and while I forget what this entails, I believe he was resurrected by the Mothers (hence why he calls Ouroboros "mother") and after you killed the dragon, he was left by himself to wander. He's basically some sort of superhuman that believes in humanity's potential.

[scy]

[theo]

Thanks, Scy! While I'm super-tempted to just list my copy on Amazon and totally move on, I'll hang on to it for a while, so I might take you up on your password offer. Also, I was at Level 37, so maybe I'm under-leveled.

Anyway, a small victory for me was wrapping up the Yggdrasil side-quest and saving myself. I was able to grind it down very slowly, which was why I thought I was ready for Ourobos. I think I'm just not that good at SMT-style games.

@Sampson: Thanks for the scoop. Wow, so was it Jack's Squad that was doing the operating on Jimenez and Bugaboo? If so, what was the motive? Did Jack's Squad ever reveal how exactly they planned on leaving the Swarzwelt with all their loot, if that was truly their motive?

How was the opportunity for Zelinin's transformation presented? Did she ask or was she approached, or something totally different?

What were the themes and motifs for Fornax, Grus, and Hologium?

Was Gore the uberSoAndSo while he was alive, and therefore selected for resurrection? And where'd that snazzy tux come from?!

Sorry if I'm being annoying with my questions. I'm hoping someone comes out with a script dump on GameFaqs or something soon.

[scy]

I'll get to the others when I get there but for Jimenez:

Jimenez offers to stay behind with Captain Jack's crew as your "spy" to keep tabs on what they were planning. Mid-way through Sector F exploration, Jimenez is captured after "causing a scene and sabotaging their [Captain Jack's] lab." You go on a rescue mission.

What you find is that Captain Jack's crew were using Demons in rather twisted experiments; mutilating demons in order to create some kind of super Demon under their control. "Hate me, detest me ... your rage fuels your power" sort of deal. You're even given the option to shut down (i.e., euthanize) some of the test tube Demons after killing some of the lab workers.

When you find Jimenez, the lab is busy trying to fuse him and Bugaboo together; they plan to use this combination as yet another powerful Demon under their control. The final attempt is tried once you enter and the process will ultimately kill Bugaboo if it's stopped (if you try to switch it off, Jimenez forces you to stop to spare Bugaboo). He begs you to fuse them with the Demon Fusion tool to save Bugaboo and you even get a snazzy Demon Fusion scene with them. The outcome is pretty much a combination of the two; half of Jimenez's face is Bugaboo's and parts of his body are reminiscent of what Bugaboo looked like.

The aftermath of it all is you fight Captain Jack and Jimenez murders him; he plans to go on a killing spree afterwards with the rest of the crew but is stopped by Zelenin.

The ultimate irony is you find out that Jimenez did not do anything to Captain Jack's facility; Bugaboo had gotten loose and ran amok and caused the damages, not Jimenez himself.

Edit: Oh yeah, Fornax seems to run off the idea of order? of some kind. The place is very geometrical and the Black Box makes note of it being filled with equilateral triangles and other shapes. To be honest, I'm not quite sure what the point of the place was in terms of motif (and I honestly don't even remember much of the Boss Demon's speech--you're not even given a Law/Chaos/Neutral choice!).

The big theme of the dungeon is showing off the Demon's hatred of Humanity for ruining the Earth; for squandering what they were given. The first four Sector bosses return and show "their true forms" as a series of mini-boss fights (including that annoying as hell little ball from Sector D) and they each give a speech about Humanity's waste; how undeserving they are.

Grus, when you first arrive, is Antila revisited by the look of it (and hinted of revisiting the other Sectors too). I'll get more as I put actual time in the dungeon and explore it.

[Sampson]

Well, all the true forms of the bosses of the first four sectors had alignment choices, so Tiamat's lack of one wasn't too missed.

Grus is where Law and Chaos get more defined. You go to each of the headquarters (different phase shifts) and you hear each side.

Also, on a side note, Mastema's creepy. When you face him during the Chaos path, he starts out with the expected "Your soul is defiled" speech, then goes on to rant about how humanity exists only to be used as pawns, which was rather unexpected. It cements his place as a douchebag angel, though.

[theo]

[scy]