Atlus USA announces Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey

[Maxine MagicFox]

[spoiler]Mastema. I believe Zelenin is pure and wants so much to follow some holy-like figure. However, despite Mastema calling himself a divine being - I think he is still a "demon", much like Power or Virtue. I think he and his kind have their own agenda. If anything, I'd prefer Chaos, even. At least they announce their intentions and do not hide behind a veil of holiness.[/spoiler]

But see, that's why I think I would follow neutral path

[spoiler]I don't want the world to be destroyed or overly controlled! Fixed, yes. I like Zelenin but I hate her anal retentive nature, and I like Jiminez but not his fuck everything, it's all about me nature.[/spoiler]

[beekee]

[spoiler]That's why I am going neutral, too. Actually it's a bit inadvertent - I just agree with the neutral choices. I know some things about Mastema but I won't spoil. I also feel the same way about Zelenin and Jimenez.[/spoiler]

[Maxine MagicFox]

[spoiler]Yes, :[ please do not spoil, you will get banned... XD j/k.... or am I? Let's not try it and find out.

I'm good with usually guessing choices. I blame it on all of the Which-Way books and the visual novels I've read. XD So, I am usually very good with getting the choice I need/want. Or so I hope... well... I must be doing something right if I'm on Law and have never flickered, despite my continued use of opposite alignments.[/spoiler]

[scy]

What demons you use has absolutely no reflection on your own alignment. It's just based on story choices and a few quests here and there.

As for the routes ... Law in Strange Journey is pretty typical SMT Law. Though I guess if it's your first SMT (no, Persona doesn't count, though Devil Survivor sort of does) then you may be a bit surprised at all three routes. Maybe.

Edit: This reminds me ... I need to finish Strange Journey. I suppose I just got disillusioned when the game started becoming a cakewalk.

[spoiler]Then again ... it started as a cakewalk too ... T.T[/spoiler]

[beekee]

It is the first Megaten I have played but I am very familiar with how Megaten works. I wasn't counting Devil Survivor, but have played it.

The Persona series is obviously different but can give an accurate, if less overt, depiction of how the Law and Chaos principles are envisioned in the SMT family.

I gather it's not as hard as Nocturne.

@Maxine: *covers head* no worries about that. Also:

[spoiler]You may already know this, but alignment choice can have an influence on weapon selection. As I understand it gun use gains some advantage for Lawful players, while sword use does for Chaotic characters.[/spoiler]

[scy]

[beekee]

Persona games don't really have a discourse about Law and Chaos, but they show the same perspective, generally, on how lawful beings and chaotic beings behave. The characteristics are pretty pervasive in Megaten depictions though not always so relevant (Persona, Raidou).

The games on the whole have much more a teen anime-ish intonation.

Devil Survivor really was like Megaten-lite. I would like to finish it before the next one comes out.

Iunno. Most games really aren't that difficult in my experience. Some games require more grinding or planning but once you do it, you're back to things not being very difficult. So I guess it's okay.

EDIT:
[spoiler]I didn't mean the weapon you use influences your alignment. I meant picking a certain alignment can mean better selection of one particular weapon type. That is, later game equipment options.[/spoiler]

[scy]

In that case:
[spoiler]Law has the best Sword (Ananomi Sword - 130 ATK), Chaos has the best Gun (Peacemaker - 130 ATK, Moan Bullet / Frigid Spray / Gateful One). Though ... they're not THAT much better than the "Neutral" options (128 on the Sword and 117 on the Gun with Freischutz / Gust Shot / Moan Bullet).[/spoiler]

As for difficulty, good to know there's someone else here who doesn't find these games all that hard. EO and the SMT series are pretty much easy games given some actual thought to the mechanics (not in the sense of knowing how they work but actually utilizing the game's mechanics to your advantage; i.e., fusing in SMT). I was getting tired of the weird stares for complaining about the lack of difficulty~

Edit: ...oh hey, I still need to finish Raidou. Oops.

[beekee]

[spoiler]Is that a cross-incentive thing, like female Dancers and male bards in FFT? I was under the impression Law yielded better guns overall and Chaos yielded better swords.[/spoiler]
Yeah, EO isn't difficult if you grind. Admittedly I have not played as wide a range of games as some of my friends, but I haven't had many play experiences that were really difficult even after conventional optimization/levelling.
I think it's because difficulty that can't be reduced with skill or time often means just plain unfavorable odds, and this can result in an experience that is frustrating rather than challenging or stimulating.

The SaGa games are among the only ones I have played extensively that require more than just grinding, but you can still optimize and prepare for challenging tasks. Some chance is involved, of course.

What are games have you found to be consistently challenging?

[scy]

[spoiler]There's 4 Alignment specific items per side (well, besides Neutral): Two Swords, One Armor, One Gun. The best Sword is Law only, the best Gun is Chaos only. The best Armor is neither, if I recall.

Law Only:
Plasma Sword: 2-4 Hits, 26 Attack

Ananomi Sword: 1 Hit, 130 Attack

Megido Fire: 1 Hit, all-target, 74 Attack. Inferno Spray / Riot Gun Copy / Inferno Shot

Cleric Robes: 60 DEF, Drain Elec, Strong Wind, Weak Curse

Chjaos Only:
Vajra: 1-2 Hits, 54 Attack

Kurikara Blade: 1-4 Hits, 58 Attack

Peacemaker: 1 Hit, single-target, 130 Attack. Moan Bullet / Frigid Spray / Grateful One

Monarch Vest: 110 Def, Strong Gun, Weak Expel.[/spoiler]

EO difficulty, I've never had the need to grind. Doesn't help that they've pretty much consistently gotten easier over time.

Edit: Or I consistently break the game more and more, perhaps.

I've never really found an RPG difficult, to be honest. At least, one that wasn't a challenge file of some sort (i.e., SCC/SSCC FFT).

[Maxine MagicFox]

If you are grinding in EO, you are doing it WRONG.

I don't go so deep into game mechanics and shit as you do, Scy, still, you have to admit that when compared to most of the shit on the market, these games are considering a great deal more difficult.

I do not find SJ very hard at all - EO is definitely much harder. So far, the bosses that I have fought have been brought down in a familiar pattern: fight, figure out their weaknesses, be defeated/turn game off > fuse demons with your alignment with necessary skills, bash the boss's weaknesses, WIN... in a disappointingly easy manner. Actually, I find the only difficulty in the game is in the manner of keeping track of your MP and deciding when its best to go back or run to the nearest healing pool and spend your Macca to heal yourself. This is not difficulty even to me. This is annoyance.

[scy]

Between EO and SJ, SJ is probably the harder game. Why? It's harder (or more tedious, take your pick) to properly fuse good demons than to not suck in EO. The difficulty in the two games is pretty much a combination of not knowing what the enemies will do and having a terrible party. It's just easier to fix a bad party in EO than in an SMT game.

Sorry, you can't really say "SJ is easier because all I have to do is bring the right party and do the right things." EO is pretty much snoozefest if you bring the right party and you don't even have to change it for every fight. Just EO gets this magical "pass" and people overlook that the difficulty stems from their class/skill choices mostly.

[spoiler]As for difficulty in general, I dunno. I guess it may be harder in the sense that you can't just "do whatever" and your mistakes lead to death more often than "shit need to turn things around before it really goes bad."

Even then, I'd really just say it boils down to the fact you can never really break the game. The level of broken-ness you can get in some other RPGs is just ridiculously higher than EO. What was EO2's pinnacle of cheese? Either Painless + Axcela spam or Revenge? Compare that to flat out negating AI scripts, one-shotting bosses, breaking damage caps, etc.? EO just does a better job of making your characters weaker than the monsters.[/spoiler]

[beekee]

[scy]

[beekee]