Atlus USA announces Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey

[scy]

[beekee]

[scy]

Oh yeah, this is an SJ topic ... what alignment?
[spoiler]Neutral is arguably the hardest late-game but that's just due to other things. Demon selection is never really an issue for any of the three paths, though I'll give a nod to Neutral having some of the best mid-game choices.

Co-ops are generally just nice because they cut down on MP spent and turns in the fight. It's just nice to be able to hit something once and the co-op kills it so it never attacks and you expend little MP overall. It's more of a "cuts down risk of death, extends longevity in the dungeon" tool than, "you need it to survive."[/spoiler]

I just noticed I deleted my bit on forced limits on players ... hm. Anyway, small things like "you can't use magic here!" or "you can only use magic here!" are always welcome additions for games, in my opinion. These typically never actually make things hard (since you're never at a disadvantage because of them doing this; the "magic only!" area is never populated with magic immunities, for example) but changing the rules on the player is always a nice way to keep them on their toes.

That's one of the reasons why I'm kind of a fan of boss fights that have phases. Where you need to keep track of what's going on because, after a certain point, what you're planning for needs to adjust.

I suppose at the end of the day, it's just a "blahblahblah turn-based isn't hard blahblah" rant. And, really, that's the best summary of what I've said. If the game engine is a bunch of menus, the only thing there is to the fight is knowing what to do. Executing it isn't hard.

[spoiler]FFXIII, for example, forgoes traditional turn-based and it actually has something resembling "difficulty" at times. It's not so much because fights are hard but because how well you do is how well you react. If you're not keeping up with things, you'll probably not do so hot. It's a lot of real-time decisions being made on the fly and I really enjoyed that.

That's also why I like the Tales of games so much (and Star Ocean). Sure, you can know what to do for the fight but actually doing it is a bit different. And, in these games, it really does make a difference when the harder difficulties are "more HP, more stats" since it means you have to do what is necessary for a longer period and a lot tighter control.[/spoiler]

[Maxine MagicFox]

<3 This discussion is made of much win, to the both of you. ^_^ I'm enjoying it immensely. I would jump in but I think the both of you are doing splendidly.

[scy]

I guess my desire for more player skill related difficulty is why I've started to pick up fighting games (<3 BlazBlue, though the Combo Challenges make my hands bleed already and I'm not even playing). Meh, who knows.

On the topic of SJ as well, I probably have some awesome-sauce demons for various level ranges (like, a completely broken Doppelganger!) if anyone's curious. They're ridiculously expensive though. None of them are ridiculous (i.e., no Victory Cry Jihads) but most are typically 4-elemental with some utility (Luster Candy, Debilitate, Resists/Null/Absorb/Reflects, Chakra Walk).

The Doppelganger is the only ridiculous one off-hand (maybe Ishtar too?) with Void Expel/Curse and Drain all 4 elements. In other words, he'll just lol every damage type but Almighty and Status. I made him for a future Chaos playthrough and never used him so I am sadness

[Riseatrance]

[scy]

[beekee]

[scy]

The actual fusing of them took pretty much no time, honestly. Acquiring them, however, was a pain in the ass. A lot of Skill Morphing and "spawn Source, no Drain, reload wheeeee" but I have/had a stock of every Drain and it's "relatively simple" to get them to a Mitama and to fuse it where you want from there. It's just expensive. But, hey, not like you ever need Macca for anything else. Ever.

Personally, for added "difficulty", you can use a mixed alignment party. Arguable on "difficulty" since you may lose the co-op but you do gain just flat out better demons across the board by using any alignment. That said, mid-game you have some great demons to utilize with little effort (Black Frost, Frost Ace) and later you can add in Alice. Off-hand, I think a few other decent ones are spread out around the 40-60 range as well.

An important thing to note for Strange Journey is that Sources aren't always a reflection of the demon that yields it. What I mean is, the best early game source (in my opinion, anyway) for single-target -dynes is Vouivre. She has Maragion and Poison Claw as base skills. Her Source yields Agidyne and Ziodyne, which sort of makes no sense but we'll roll with it. Her source alone means you can turn any innate Garudyne/Bufudyne demon into a tri-elemental with little effort.

Unfortunately, you can't fuse any other elements onto her (Fire/Ailment inheritance) but you can source onto her Garudyne (Dis, Sylph) or Bufudyne (Black Frost, Undine) and you can make her into a triple -dyne source. As a plus, if you put Garudyne from Dis, you can easily get a Resist Elec or Magarula; Bufudyne from Black Frost can also net you Mamudoon or Endure (not a fan of Endure but you can Skill Morph it pretty easily and it's a Rank 9 skill so it can turn into any Void, any Amp, any of the Ma-dynes, Megidola, Luster Candy, etc.).

And, the other subject~
[spoiler]I've honestly never played Romancing SaGa (either the original or the remake). That said, I've also never heard anything good about it sans here. It's only $30 new from Amazon so I may pick it up and give it a whirl.

I aassume the "power-leveling" fix is just scaling enemies, correct? For all the hate I tend to give FFVIII, that's something it did rather nicely. Punishes people for grinding. Typically, scaling enemies is terrible for a sense of improvement (hiOblivion) but, here, I liked it. Why? Because the primary way to get better is to abuse the junction system. You're not meant to level a lot. That's why there's a spell called Level Up (and Level Down, I suppose) and enemies have different loot/draw tables based on level. Scaling enemies punished you for ignoring the game's mechanics.

Too bad the Junction system was just broken (or, at the very least, being crafty meant you could break it early). Seriously, Curaga off of Tents lets you hit 3000+ HP at the beginning of the game (well, once you can refine it anyway). Brilliant folks, brilliant.[/spoiler]

[beekee]

[scy]

[beekee]

[scy]

Hm...
[spoiler]I'm assuming some of that is in regards to the Last Remnant? Not sure, really.

Battle Rank was relatively fixed in the PC version; it was pretty much impossible to screw yourself in tLR for the PC. You also couldn't massive skill grind like you could in the 360 version though but ... whatever. With the BR fix, it didn't really matter anymore that you didn't have to abuse stupid things to unlock skills.

There's some guesses as to what the fourth stats do but they're all pretty much assumptions. There's nothing in the game code we could find back then that even uses them ever so we pretty much just went with "it's a 25% chance on stat gain to waste a point."

I think the Wiki has nearly everything figured out by now but man, getting the info for the Last Remnant back then was frustrating as all hell.

@FF8:

Just to clarify, I like Rinoa's design. Her character was meh but I just find her design to be absolutely-fucking-adorable and I don't know why.

Story-wise, it was just the "suddenly SORCERESS!" and "OMG GUYS ORPHANAGE" and "lolsry brain control" moments that were a little ridiculous. It's no more ridiculous than, say, FFIV's "hai guyz, did you think I died?" they constantly pulled. It just felt a bit disjointed with the whole story-focus direction that FFVIII started for the series (+ romance sub-plot focus) that FFVIII's story just had so many stupid reveals and the romance was a little hard to swallow.

That said, it's been years since I've played myself and my only recent exposure has been following a Let's Play of it (gives me something to listen to while I play my DS).[/spoiler]

[beekee]

[spoiler]
I am not familiar with the Last Remnant; that was all info about Minstrel's Song.

I don't know the stats in tLR, but in RS:MS they are Strength, Vitality, Dexterity, Agility, Intelligence, Willpower, Compassion, and Charisma.
Intelligence is the most common magic-use attribute, and has an influence on defense against magical attacks, as well as Willpower. Willpower also determines the chance of inflicting and the duration of mental conditions. Compassion is the primary stat used in the effect of healing spells and one or two buff spells. Charisma is useful for some schools of magic, especially Illusion magic.

From what you're saying, I imagine that stat gain is perhaps less stringent in RS:MS - after a certain point on a high ER, you could spend more time working on key stats without worry. I'd need to look into the mechanics a bit more to be sure.

As for FF8: I did like Rinoa's design. I liked Squall's design, too, as did a lot of people I gather. But I think Zell's just adorable.

I digged some of the sorceress mythology they had going on; I've always been interested in establishing a stronger background mythos for FF settings.
I do see what you mean about the mind-control antics.

@Strange Journey: Just a thought, but I always find it a bit funny when major mythological beings like members of the Tridevi, i.e. Sarasvati, are low-tier demons. [/spoiler]

[scy]

~~~
[spoiler]Alright, confused me for a bit there.

In The Last Remnant, there are three primary stats (Strength, Magic, Speed) and then a 4th stat unique to all characters. The 4th stat is just ... kind of there. The coding never seems to call it (then again, I don't think it even calls it when checking for stat gains post-fight) and the names of them don't seem to help indicate a damn thing (Selfishness, Gluttony, Hope, Love, etc.) about ANYTHING related to the game. Quite ridiculous, to be honest.

It's not as bad as it sounds, mind you, as you can typically see multiple stat gains per fight ... it's just we never figured out WHAT controls them. The PC version fixed the game _a lot_ and just playing through normally keeps you pretty much well-equipped for the game. The 360 version was sort of a clusterfuck and if you DIDN'T fight every battle solo and do some Rush solo skill/artes grinding (any work towards skills on him worked for everyone) then the game all of a sudden became very difficult. Well, even the PC version was still kind of hard actually but it's just due to "ohshit they hit hard."

If you get the chance, I'd offer the Last Remnant as a suggestion. It's a bit frustrating at times but it's a pretty fun game if you get over some of the shortcomings. There's a 360 version (which, besides the above mentioned qualities, also has issues with load times and texture pop-in) and a PC version (needs a decent PC, some coding issues).

...but, RS:MS sounds interesting. I'll give it a try when I get the chance.

@Strange Journey: Haha, yeah. It's quite ridiculous how some of the mythos for the demons seems to be unrelated to their relative strength. At least some of them that are related to each other directly (i.e., the angels) are kept relatively in-line.[/spoiler]