EOIII Questions thread

[Fluffernuff]

well im currently only using ether for my S's and my M... my Z is Z/A, which im finding kinda fun... even if i am gimping myself. she still hits in the 800-1k range on e.charge barrages(hitting weakness)... funnily enough, her attacks are on par with, if not a little more than everyone else's... did i mess up somewhere?

and i know N/Z dark ether isnt actually cheating... ive just gone so long without it that using it now and being able to spam my high tp moves feels like i turned on easy mode is all

[isometric]

[Fluffernuff]

im NOOOOOT quite high enough level/have enough SP to really spread out for stars, binaries, barrages AND the single target arbalist skills. i think the only reason i think my Z/A does the damage she does (even without weakness) is the crossbow. and i gave her a str ring. just for lolz. she has some 350ish attack at 43 while everyone else (barring my monk because maces) are just barely hitting 300.

im actually still messing around with my build/classes though. ive rested/retired so many times and grinded them back up to level so many times.... my farming group is 64.... yeah.. i have a problem >>

but anywho, my current group is S / S / M / N / A with Ss using Daifuhensa and Blitz command (and wolf howl in downtime), M using attack, gaurd(usually because my front line is squishy as balls), or protect order depending on the situation, N using dark ether (or bushin in a boss battle) and Z using E.Charge or a barrage
its one of the more fun groups ive played with... but its so limited in what it does... and given my setup, i dont really have a singular dedicated damage dealer, aside from Z/A

[isometric]

You shouldn't have to spread yourself out so thin -- barrages and binaries overlap in role for example, but barrages are cheaper to cast. Just pick one single-target skillset to start with, one aoe skillset, and etheric charge/dark ether.

As for your damage woes, I can understand why after seeing your classes. N's and S's aren't really known for being great damage-dealers to begin with, outside of really gimmicky setups (such as WM shoccaneers acting as triggers for the G/S, and Tagen Battou ninja solo/duo runs).

Shogun attacks have decidedly mediocre multipliers (I'd rate 5RS maybe like 3/5 compared to other class attacks) As for Ninjas, their TEC and STR progression isn't great and their class skills rely on usually-weak daggers.

But again, as long as you're downing bosses, they're doing their jobs well enough.

[Fluffernuff]

i worded that terribly, lol
i mean that im not high enough level to delve into each of the different trees... im focused on barrages... i dont have binaries on top of that, and if i DID, itd be for the prophecy skills

my ninja is using a katana from back row but still spamming dark ethers... i also advanced em into singularity and forged his weapon so he does passable damage during my blitz commands

and i found out how mediocre shoguns were for pure attacking. i just... i dont want to retire and grind again. daifuhensha+attack order + charge tactic/berserker vow still pumps out 200-300 damage hits from them though, so my blitz commands actually can churn out~900 damage each with 1 turn setup... ~1000 if i have bushin. or more if im hitting a weakness from my N or Z. it works... its just not AMAZING.

on the topic of blitz command... i thought i was being clever tring double action with blitz command... turns out double action doesnt activate blitz command :c sad day
ended up going /G for mace mastery... couldnt really think of another great sub for Blitz command... maybe Z or singularity forged weapon? i guess?

[isometric]

Blitz has a lot of problems. It relies on the party members' buffs rather than the casting Shogun, and eats Charge/Etheric Charge should they be using it. Overall its damage is lower than 5-Ring Sword. Have you considered using that instead?

I'll compare the S to a G, so you can see the numbers behind both attackers. Lots of percentages ahead:



Does that help to put it in perspective? I don't know how number-focused you are, but I hope that helps explain my viewpoint a little better regarding the mediocrity of Shogun mains.

edit: I should add, I'm not advocating that you take G/S... it's not very good either and I wouldn't bother taking one myself. I'm just comparing G/S to S/G to highlight specifically how mediocre they are!

[Fluffernuff]

oh no, its fine, im thankful for the numbers... itll be something to consider for 4th playthrough final post-game stuff

on a different note.... i ran across a different random topic bringing up wildlings...

do you think sacrifice would be reliable enough for lion/ tiger? (40% chance for "Bodyguard" basically) to proc tiger counterattack or lions wake-up? basically utilizing them as a tank? maybe sub N/S/ or H for counters or shield skills respectively?

i mean not as an actual replacement... or even as something super endgame viable... but do you think itd be something fun that could work? i know wildling "loses" to the ninjas 6th slot but would it be a worthwhile use for a wildling? or just shut up and focus on status?

[isometric]

...maybe? I don't know. Perhaps designating the tiger with Otori on a ninja would let it take more blows.

The problem with tigers is:
- their stats are fixed, so as the game goes on they're squishier.
- It also requires you to take 2 mediocre classes and spend 2 turns to set it up.

On random battles, you can almost autobattle things to death in 2 turns and easily burst them down with your normal rotation in 2 turns. Against bosses, lots of AoE is used which makes it far less effective.

So overall, you'd need a bit of time to set up the Tiger as your meat shield, and the returns just don't really seem worth it as far as both TP and rounds taken are concerned. Especially when taking AoE into account.

edit: to be fair, you'll have a 35% chance to kill enemies in the 1st round thanks to maxed tiger, I guess. That's worth mentioning.

edit 2: to more directly answer your actual questions, the sacrifice proc does activate your lion/tiger wake up/counters.

[Fluffernuff]

yknow what? screw it. Farmer Hoplite. I have my tank. forever. and theyll never EVER fail me.....eveeeeeeer

actually legit thought suddenly popped into my head about that... is farmer actually a good subclass if you have nothing else that would really fit? brave heart and the ability to harvest (albeit not much) and not needing threads seems..... justifiable

[isometric]

Nah, farmer's not a great sub for your combat party. If you've literally got nothing else to sub, then sure! It's got an out-of-combat rez and a warp back. Both can be replaced with a few en and a couple of item slots though.

Farmers have really good luck which helps them with their debuffs, so taking another main doesn't help them much in that regard.

There's usually SOMETHING worth taking over the F though. B or W for debuffs, P or S for damage buffs.

Actually, on the topic of Farmers and Blitz... farmers with a Shogun sub probably get okay mileage out of blitz since it doesn't rely on their own stats to use. Still VASTLY inferior to a damage-dealer, but I thought I'd mention it in case anybody needed a really bad idea for a 5th party member.

[Fluffernuff]

sorry i ask alot of weird build questions... i tend to get more into theorycrafting stuff that has no right actually working than actually playing (still sad about blitz+double action) xD

i have alot of fun using stuff thats "bad" and making it "work".... iunno maybe im a masochist xD

[isometric]

No worries mate. Now you have me thinking outside my safe, min-maxy hugbox...

[Fluffernuff]

im sorry? xD

i guess im more focused on "will this work?" rather than "how much will THIS do~?"

and as im playing again now.... it seems Blitz command on its own is terrible... but the more damage the group does as a whole + the amount of USERS makes it something else.. an N/S under Bushin plus 2-3 other user+ high atk healer would do decent if not great 1 turn damage(thats like... 20-25 attacks in a turn)... albeit at the cost of your group's versatility

ive also found out through the 4th stratum F.O.Es that Blitz bypasses counterattacks... im not sure if theres any bosses or post-game F.O.Es that have particularly damaging counters... but its a thing. it also procs things like etheric return,extend, crits, limit boost etc. so it has.... SOME usefulness i guess. definitely no shoccaneer build but it..... has a niche place

[isometric]

[Fluffernuff]

oh sorry! im not really crunching numbers lol... just going off my setup as a bit of a reference

i mean yeah.. its not a GREAT build or idea... but if we can assume you do 100 damage with each character (at 70? 80? 90? 99? probably PREEEETTY weak, but just a reference) thats 2000-2500 damage a turn... without counting limits. if you have buffs like attack order or daifuhensha or charge tactic or berserker vow... that average can shoot up... if you do ~500 across everyones attack each thats 10000-15000(maybe less realistic to have 500 damage across everyone? im not even REMOTELY close to that level) i mean in sure thats... reasonable...id hope and youd have to assume the bunshin character too, as the blitzER doesnt attack (so without bunshin, thats 4 attacks instead of 5, would would drop said average)

thered be setup turns and such, and the charge isnt WASTED if you can actually plan the uses too (if you have 3-4 users, you can probably safely have your bigger hitter pop off a charge thatll proc.. probably wouldnt be worth unleashing every charge at once).... ive always just sortof unloaded all my possible buffs turn 1 and refresh every 4 (or as possible... dont buff on elemental party wipe turn!)

i can see why its bad though xD definately not the build to end them all... i mean its considered ignorable for a reason, right? its a fun toy to focus on though to mess around with i would think