Discussions for Horizon Odyssey(Where you rant at the GM)

[Rothene]

Yes, I know they have not really lasted. But I'm thinking about testing out one coming November(Or maybe earlier if I get things sorted out faster) as my summer break would be around that time. It'll give me time to finalise a system and perhaps find a much needed Co-GM due to fun fun Australian timezone in relation to European and American forumers.

For now, I want some opinions of the idea I have on how it will be run. I've seen FomeRubr555's method of each RPer is a guild(And hopefully 5 man guild at max for now). This deals with some issues of inactive Rpers holding back the plot. But it might lead to RPers not needing to interact with others.

As a way to handle that con, I'm putting 'skill points' into the system. Each character has a limited pool of points to spend on skills, giving their individual skills a rating of Novice, Veteran and Master. This will limit what each character in that 5 man guild can cover, or cover well if people decide to be Novice in everything.

These rank of skills will help me shape how tough FOEs, Ambushes and Bosses are to a particular RPer's guild. Difficulity ranging from Trivial, Easy, Moderate, Challenging, Brutal, Pyrrhic to Impossible, where in Impossible, the guild will have to be saved and no chance of winning if they go forward and disturb the enemy. This allows me to leave it up to the player to better visualise how difficult the battle should be portrayed for their victory.

Random encounters are left to the RPer to handle on their own, but depending on how many the RPers give themselves, their odds of beating a FOE, Boss or Ambush goes down, but will have a boost in the resources the guild can realistically have for item and equipment purchases. On that note, I'll have a hard limit on how many random fights an RPer can go through in a single day.

And unlike in EO where everyone's the only guild really doing stuff, since multiple RPers will lead to multiple guilds being active, there can be ganging up on bosses and FOEs to make the odds of winning much easier and less costly. But IC coordination will be key.

For setting, I plan to create my own setting(But not entirely original, we need Yggdrasil in it somewhere) with no reference to Etria, Lagaard, Armoroad or Tharsis Location or NPCs sorry . Instead I'll make up new nations and NPCs. In this setting, Yggdrasil Labyrinth is a large tree(surprise ) but RPers will start at ground level and can either spend their days exploring up the tree or down to its roots, each with its own set of Strata and mysteries. The RPer can swtch exploration directions.

Also, I'll only be making use to EO2's set of classes initially to keep things simple on my end. But as the story progresses other classes from EO3 and EO4 can be unlocked as quests of sorts to tie them into the setting.

For now with these bit of data out of the way, I'd like some thoughts and feedback.

[Curry-Kohai]

I reaffirm my distaste for controlling a whole party. To me, the skill system only serves to complicate the game, all for the sake of getting rid of something that will largely remain. Okay, my party doesn't have the right skills, I'll get someone else's help, then bugger off, it doesn't add interaction so much as dependence, and that's not much fun.

[noodles]

i'd be much happier with each player controlling one character, all of those characters making one party (since i doubt more than five people will play for long) and rothene dictating what those characters encounter

and i'd have to see the rules all written out so I'm going to know how everything works beyond "i attack"

[Rothene]

I take it that there are far less people who are warm to the idea of an RPer being represented by a guild.

As for the rules, I don't plan on it involve any dice rolling. Rather I'm not interested in it becoming a standard play by post RPG with rules governing attacks. The skill points system is to let the GM identify the tools at the party composition's disposal and how much it will impact on a fight, and how much wealth the group will be generating. I'll show the prototype skill system based around the EO2 classes. Yes the skill list aren't accurate depiction of EO2's list and a good deal of skills are missing.

Basically, each character starts of with 3 points to spend, which they put into each individual skills. Every skill can hold up to 3 ranks unless specifically noted as 1 Rank only. A point in Volt will give Volt skill, denoting Novice mastery over the Volt path for Alchemist. 2 points unlocks Thor, denoting Veteran mastery of the Volt tree and AoE capabilities. 3 Points pushes it up to Master rank, denoting just how awesome said alchemist is in relation to his/her fellow Alchemist without a Master rank in Volt. As Stratums get unlocked, additional skill points will be awarded to all characters and new characters.

This is a protoype and probably isn't final.

Landsknecht:
Sword (Tornado, All Slash, Ray Slash)
Axe (Crusher, Silencer, Stunner)
Double Hit (Require 2 Sword and 2 Axe)
Chase Fire
Chase Ice
Chase Volt
Mine

Alchemist:
Fire (Fire, Inferno, Flame)
Ice (Ice, Cocytus, Freeze)
Volt (Volt, Thor, Thunder)
Analysis (1 Rank only)
Physical (Slash, Crush, Pierce in any order)
Megido (Require 1 Fire/Ice/Volt/Physical, 1 Warp, 1 Analysis)
Warp (1 Rank only)
Chop

Medic:
Scavenge
Cure (Cure, CureII, CureIII)
Salve (Salve, SalveII, SalveIII)
Resurrection
Unbind (Leg, Head, Arm)
Refresh (Poison and Blind, Sleep, Paralyse and Curse)
Caduceus
Patch Up
Take


Dark Hunter:
Whip(Viper, Ecstasy, Climax)
Sword(Hypnos, Nerve, Drain)
Cuff
Gag
Shackle
Bait (1 Rank only, Require 2 Sword and 2 Whip)
Magibait (1 Rank only, Require 2 Sword and 2 Whip)
Unbind (Leg, Head, Arm)
Lure (1 Rank only)
Chop


Survivalist:
Escape Up (1 Rank only)
Bow (True shot, Double shot, Apollon)
Ambush
Aware
Arrows (Sleep Arrow, Paralyse Arrow, Poison Arrow)
Stalker
Patrol (1 rank only)
Chop
Mine
Take


Troubadour:
Dance (Bravery, Shelter, Erasure)
Blaze (Blaze, Ifrit)
Frost (Frost,Ymir)
Shock (Shock, Taramis)
Recovery (Poison and Blind, Sleep, Paralyse and Curse)
Luring (1 Rank only)
Danger (1 Rank only)
Lullaby (1 Rank only)
Take


Protector:
Shield (Ally Guard, Line Guard, Party Guard)
Anti Fire (Resist, Immune, Absorb)
Anti Ice (Resist, Immune, Absorb)
Anti Volt (Resist, Immune, Absorb)
Provoke
Refresh (Poison and Blind, Sleep, Paralyse and Curse)
Smite
Mine

Ronin:
Overhead (Zamba, Orochi, Kienzan)
Seigan (Getsuei, Raizuki, Minakata)
Iai (Nukeuchi, Hyosetsu, Hosoyuki)
Dead Law (1 Rank only)
Sayageki
Koteuchi
Kubiuchi
Midareba (Requires 1 Dead Law, 1 Overhead, 1 Seigan, 1 Iai)
Mine

Hexer:
Blinding
Poison
Torpor
Paralyse
Corrupt
Abdomen
Cranial
Immobile
Revenge
Take

Gunner:
Gun (Risk shot, Snipe, Ricochet)
Shot (Leg shot, Arm shot, Head shot)
Fire Shot (Flame Shot, RiskFire)
Ice Shot (Freese Shot, RiskIce)
Volt Shot (Thunder Shot, Riskvolt)
Double Attack (Requires 2 Gun)
Stunshot (1 Rank only)
Medishot (Leg, Arm, Head)
Take

Warmagus:
Cure (Cure, CureII, CureIII)
Salve (Salve, SalveII, Only 2 Ranks)
Blindcut
Poisoncut
Sleepcut
Paralysecut
Cursecut
Lore (Warmight, Rockskin, Erase)
Transfer (Requires 1 Cursecut)

Beast:
Loyalty (Loyalty, Bristle, Preen)
Auto Cure
Auto Heal (Poison and Blind and Leg, Sleep and Arm, Paralyse and Curse and Head)
Tenacity (1 Rank only, Requires 2 Auto Heal, 2 Auto Cure)
Maul (Maul, Devour)
Bodyslam (Bodyslam, Rampage(Requires 3 Loyalty))
Claw (Claw, Wildcut)
Roar (Roar, Howl, Growl)
Fetch

Battles will pretty much play out like in any non-stat Role playing format and be purely up to the RPer to describe what their characters do within the bounds of the skills they have. And that creativity will be important to adjudicate how well a battle proceeds if it is of moderate or higher difficulty where creative use of skills or battle techniques become more important to overcoming hard enemies.

For example in a battle with Chimaera, an Alchemist attempts to use Ice to fill its mouth up with a block of ice to prevent it from biting the badly wounded Landsknecht. If the Alchemist had Master rank in Ice then it would be done and when I make a post describing how the Chimaera's bite fails to connect.

That's the gist of the system I have in mind for including skills. It should function pretty much the same in both the type where RPers are guilds or RPers are single PCs.

[Riseatrance]

I don't like the idea behind roleplayers controlling entire guilds - that seems more suited to a storytelling medium that isn't restricted to other groups/guilds. On top of that, at some point a logistics nightmare will arise when players are handling many characters at once, and would require a lot of spread-sheeting (in the figurative sense) to keep track of at once. Furthermore, the amount of player-to-player interaction would generally be less as parties are more independent of one another.

where roleplayers took control of one character versus one guild or party. Skill system seems fine, but keep in mind we're not aiming for a tabletop RPG format here, so a careful judgment of how skills and encounters are going to work is essential. That said, I'd be interested in participating, so good luck.

[FomeRubr555]

I am kind of amazed more people don't like the guild system. But then again, I guess if they wanted to do that, they'd be in the fanfiction section rather than here. Well, still, I'll put my two cents in.

The skill system and everything presented so far seems fine to me, it's just a matter of who would be willing to play it. Whether it's one guild per player, or one character per player, problems do arise. With the former, the problem mainly seems to be interest...as in, no one wants to play a whole guild. That could be solved by changing a bit of the core system Rothene has planned, to center it more on a single-character-per-player system. Unfortunately, it wouldn't be easy.

A lot of elements Rothene has presented are designed solely for a guild-based system. For example, unlocking secret classes; what would be the point? Only new players would get to benefit from it (or I guess people could retire their characters, but I doubt anyone would want to after they've grown so attached to playing someone...maybe reclassing could be a thing?). Also, if we use a character-based system, and there are only enough players to form one guild, dividing the tree into two sections suddenly loses it's appeal. Up or down doesn't really make much of a difference; things would feel more linear. And I feel like the skill system as a whole suffers. If players control entire guilds, and a boss or FOE is too tough for them, they can hand it off to another guild. But in a character-based RP, if the party makeup can't fight the boss, there's no one else to rely upon to help. It'd basically be game over.

I know many of these things could be worked around - such as slightly changing the way your skills affect boss fights - but I feel changing it up causes more problems then it solves. But then again, if no one wants to play a guild-based roleplay, then there's no real helping it and it's pointless of me to keep harping on about it.

Either way, you also have to consider other factors that killed our roleplays in the past (mostly waiting for someone to post who never did, or the GM becoming too busy to continue, etc.). I'm not saying it's not doable, just that these are issues that should be considered before starting the game. My main fear is that if this doesn't provide something new that the other ones didn't, it'll end up just like them: dead before the players could clear the first floor. I think having a co-GM will help to prevent that, though.

As for me, I am quite interested no matter what system this RP uses. However, I don't know if I'll have the time to post daily, so whether or not I actually participate is another story. Guess I'll figure that out when the time comes.

[Curry-Kohai]

[Rothene]

So far it seems the not-a-Guild RPer concept is more attractive.

It seems that there's a misconception of how I would make impossible enemies to beat. My idea is to set up some strata bosses as impossible to beat on a first battle if the group in question has a complete combination of First time encountering the beast, is not fully set up to optimally beat it skillwise, have not gathered enough information/rumours about the particular monster. Not selectively wiping out/dealing with the various FOEs nearby could also contribute to it.

It also gives me more opportunity to make quests hand out rewards that are actually rewarding like say elemental jars or blind gas to cover what the guild lacks.

As for class unlocks and grinding, the skill points to spend is universal, so say the first stratum boss is beaten, everyone gets a skill point to spend. This means any new/replacement characters will start off with 4 skill points to spend instead of three. Part of my idea of class unlocks is to associate the EO3 or 4 classes with a particular section of the tree, to build the world around they are unique culturally to the classes from ground level.

I don't plan on wholly restricting one RPer to one character once the new classes become available so that the RPer can keep their old character and also RP the new if they can manage it. It will also make split exploring a valid option, and round out adventuring parties better since our community is quite small.

For the upper and lower reaches of exploring the tree, it won't matter if a single RPer is a guild or character, plot can be made to intertwine the necessity of exploring both or ignoring one entirely.

About what kills roleplays, my view is that they largely stop as soon as the GM inputs slowdown or disappear for a length of time, which is not uncommon for a forum based RP. Which is where a Co-GM comes in, to be informed about the full extent of the plot to help push the story telling when the GM is otherwise unavailable. And maybe replace the GM if something happens to the GM and the RPers are still interested in continuing.

[FomeRubr555]

[Curry-Kohai]

[Rothene]

So to boost pacing of a fight, should we leave the description of both the attack and the effects of it entirely to the poster?

Like the Alchemist doesn't just go 'I cast fire' wait for Gm to describe what happens. Instead, Alchemist goes into length of not only casting the fire, but what parts does he burn off, if the fire clings onto the monster or not and whether the monster notices it and flinches from it because of the strength of the blast? Then the Gm steps in to describe if the monster goes after the offending Alchemist or turns to the provoking Protector? Also the monster in all of this will probably only be an FOE or Boss.

I think it will slow down the pacing if I have to go into minute detail of what each random encounter of moles do every moment. Random encounters can be fully fleshed out by RPers themselves. Only time I can see the GM describing a random encounter battle is when the monster is new, and every action is something the PC might not predict facing a new foe and all.

[Curry-Kohai]

^ Cool! so it's like?
"Alchemist John shoots fire at the deer's eyes, it screeches and moves back a bit."
then the GM goes:
"After which, the deer, in a blind rage, charges towards the protector."

[Rothene]

Yeah. That way, the GM just has to be descriptive enough about the monster and reveal enough relevant info for the RPer to use it for their narrative purpose. Most joy will come when the GM describes the monster unleashing their party wide blasting power. Like...

GM goes:
"DragonDeerwhateveritis opens it's dainty maw to reveal vast rows of serrated teeth and then lets loose a stream of fire catching all the unsuspecting explorers by surprise, except the shifty Survivalist who had wisely stayed away from most of the fight. The power of the attack utterly devastates those it hits, some not even in any condition to fight any further."

Although that's more likely to happen in an FOE battle where the party encounters it for the first time. No one expects a fire breathing deer right? RIGHT?

[Curry-Kohai]

Fire breathing deer? That's... Still better than panic on the entire front line.

[Rothene]

Hey, if people role play their characters right, some of the PCs are bound to FREAK OUT at a sight of a fire breathing deer.