EMD Rantage!

[Maxine MagicFox]

Meh, you guys know the drill. RANT AWAY all of your pains and frustrations...

[Maxine MagicFox]

So, not gonna lie: already I'm impressed with the game! I read a review recently that said the dungeons were very lack-luster. WTF? So far the game has been nothing but eye candy. The EO atmosphere is there and so far I'm very pleased with what I see.

Got a few questions. I JUST started dungeon 2 but I'm trying to get a feel for what I can expect so I can plot my strategies.

I've already seen a disappearing chest based off # of moves. I've also been warned of traps. Pretty decent staples. I also saw the inn storage.

Let's talk about items now, because if it's one thing I've taken away from Izuna, Izuna 2, and the two Shiren games I've played it's: IT'S ALL ABOUT THE ITEMS. Now, please let me know if I'm looking at this game too much like a rogue-like.

I noticed there's a lack of durability on items. So does that mean "infinite item"? IE no weapon breakage? EVER?
Is there a weapon shop then? Do we build up the items like in rogue-likes? (IE Izuna's scrolls)
Do we receive items to send items to the warehouse/storehouse/inn (whatever)? Or is there like in the DS Shiren a person that you unlock that randomly can appear to ship items away for safe keeping?

ARE items a big deal? Maybe I'm treating this too much like a rogue-like.

Oh, also... please tell me that a bank eventually opens up.

[Fluffernuff]

the only "experience" i have with the game thus far is watching a streamer friend of mine play it. i've yet to get it myself though. so take this for what its worth.

so one of the most important things i noticed was certain "builds" or groups need certain.... "precautions". that is to say... the AI favors, or is programmed in such a way to prioritize certain skills (should you have them). so certain classes/builds would require you to manage multiple units at once or swap between them. a good example of this would be Ninja;
Ninjas have a skill that allows them to "tag" a party member for enemy attacks. much like they did in EO3. they also have skills they can only use when an enemy is targetting another character (yknow... synergy) the problem is.... the AI seemed to NEVER use this "decoy" skill. ever. once. not even when every other skill was toggled off. meaning the AI "gimped" a portion of an entire class! this means you need to either use them as a lead or manage them through swapping.
again. take that example as it is. a spectators point of view.

meanwhile you have the protector who will literally SPAM provoke every chance it gets. sometimes 2-3 times in a row before using a shield smite. we couldnt figure out why...


i didnt get to see much of the upgrading/scroll system in action. it seems to use scrolls for upgrading.

weapons didnt have a durability that i could see. HOWEVER when my friend died, all of his characters lost a cerrtain random EQUIPMENT. along with carried items, gold, etc. etc.

the standard EO forging seems to be in full swing as well. so we have scroll upgrading, forge stat upgrading, "infinite weapons" but the potential to lose them for good with any wipe.

again. from a spectators PoV

beyond that i dont know too much else

[Myssdii]

Still don't have the game (seems that there is no planning to release it in Europe, I'll probably get my hands on an US version), but from my experience with previous Mystery Dungeon games with multiple units and skills (aka Pokémon Mystery Dungeon), you had to disable certain skills to be efficient, then re-activate them and spend a lot of time doing that.
Back then you couldn't swap leader during dungeons, dunno if it's possible to do it in EO, but if it is, then it's a huge advantage !

From my point of view, some units are leader-oriented, some others work very well as passive (seems the case for the Protector, if you just take your time in the skill menu to make it use the skill you want at the right time). Ninjas are probably better leaders, I'll look into it when I get this game

[Maxine MagicFox]

Ok, it helps if I actually click the damn menu options and look for myself before asking questions. Ok, I've got the bank question answered.

To answer some of the above questions: swapping leaders is easy. SUPER easy. You just hit the shoulder buttons - doesn't take a move. Already I'm realizing that in terms of utilizing amount of steps taken it's almost imperative to swap leaders.

As Mys said I get the feeling that some characters are going to be better leaders than others. I actually found it more useful to be my Runemaster than to be the Landsknecht. My L's up-close-and-personal actions made her less necessary to micromanage unlike my Runemaster who I wanted to micromanage so I could get the best out of the 5space-away attacks. My Medic is a dream and I love her. And my Gunner I don't seem to need to micromanage as much as I want to do with my Runemaster.

There are Blast/Focus skills that allow you to micromanage the full unit (one that was called "command all" that if it cycled through each and every single party member... a bit frustrating once the fight was over since I couldn't figure out how to turn it off and had to just use my wait option).

Seriously in terms of flow with swapping characters, to me it's not anything different than if I were playing Izuna or Shiren sifting through my item menus trying to save my butt.

Fluff answered some of my questions (I didn't watch videos, sorry, haha). So there is weapon upgrading and infinite items (with the exception of game over loss). Wow... that's going to be REALLY different than past Rogue-likes. No durability o_O; wow...... (not sure if I like that since that was always part of the challenge... swapping between three weapons and praying I can make it out without losing or breaking them haha).

Seriously, though, can anyone tell me:
Is there a random peddler to send items to storage like in Shiren?
Or a pot that sends them to storage?
Or, as in Izuna, a seal that makes an item non-losable?

[revgored]

The main thing I'm really trying to figure out right now is the fundamental value of Blast. I understand the value of Control All, but the rest of the abilities in the Blast menu seem to be largely underplayed. Maybe I'm not seeing their value right now because I'm only a couple dungeons in? I've completed the Magan's first quest, and I'm on to the DLC quests right now, but I have yet to see a REAL use of Blast beyond micromanagement.

Loving the game so far. Its' deliberate pace feels good, and every move feels tactical. Granted, it remains a room-to-room roguelike, but the addition of the EO mechanics and systems feels fresh in this setting. As of EOIV, I felt like things were getting cumbersome, and the blend in Persona Q feels like more of the same, but with a different flavour.

Transposing the mechanics onto a fundamentally different set of systems is actually pretty damned fun. I want more of the 'Rogue' feeling in my dungeon crawls, and this is scratching that itch.

[ElmntNinja]

Disabling skills can be very useful.
Whenever I have my Protector and we fight against one weak enemy, he has a habit of using Provoke everytime...

But man...

[Maxine MagicFox]

FWAAA ^_^ First boss down!
Learning forts is coming up...

[Fluffernuff]

so finally got the monies and picked it up! been playing around with the classes before things get dumb and impossible....

i'm.... really disappointed by the Princ- err... i mean... "Sovereign". they just dont....... work.
The AI literally NEVER uses orders(making them actually useless as a non-lead unit), The orders seem to have a stupidly low chance to affect THEMSELVES (though buffing allies is fine) their TP regen was neutered beyond belief (2 TP for proficiency. guessing thatll be a whole 4 with Enlightened) and 4 TP from Noble Proof at level 3/3. and thats ASSUMING you get lucky and buff yourself. otherwise. its 0 TP for your 8+TP spent

Reinforce is a nice (and automatic!)heal, and heals everything in the room when their status changes. yes. everything. including enemies and bosses. great. and its passive. and a prerequisite for Protect order. their actual heal. so great. the only reliable GROUP healer is actually a detriment to your group(and might not even put the regen on themselves either!). fantastic!

I'm sure theres some sort of setup that could use them, but as it stands... theyre only good for 1 thing; their Starvation rate is ridiculously low. and by that i mean possibly the lowest of the game.
i GUESS you could use it for a farming group as the main lead to save inventory space without the need for food. ever. they pair very well with wanderers in that regard, since they have Dendrology (while wanderer has Mineral and Herbologies)

but i cant think of a dedicated dungeon group that could use a Sovereign... and that makes me really sad. they just dont pair with any units. the ONLY units that work with the Sovereign are Dancer and Protector. and the dances dont even stack with orders!

Sorry for the rant. or if this is the wrong thread to put it. I'm just kinda putting this as a rant or i guess Warning to those thinking about using a prince(ss)

if you can make them work though, by all means let me know! i want to use mine as something more than a fort defender with my protector!

[Hong]

So I've obviously never played a Mystery Dungeon game before.

I literally came into this straight out of a session of EOU... Tried to play it like an EO game. Cleared the tutorial no problem. Got to make my own party... Built them like I would a party in EO. Played them like I would an EO game. Went into the second dungeon.

Got absolutely shrekt.

Immediately exited the game.

I'm not upset with the game. I got 100% what I deserved. I need to back up, slow things down, try it with a fresh mindset and play it as I should; as something new to me. For instance, it's clear anything the AI controlled characters should be childproof. There's also no way to keep everyone's levels synchronized, so I'd best let that go as well. Also debating whether or not I even want to make use of all my party slots. May opt to go for one-two for now. We'll see.

I'm immensely intrigued and interested. *~*

[Maxine MagicFox]

.......

Am I the only one who thinks the game is too easy? I've not received a SINGLE Game Over so far. I've had very little need for buffs. I think the Gunner class is def the best class of the game so far with Runemaster being second best. starting third dungeon here and hoping the difficulty picks up.

@Hong: I'm glad you aren't discouraged. ^_^ Rogue-likes are a very FUN and fascinating formula. Dropping into them when you are so used to other games can be a bit jarring. I'm not surprised you died. My first few runs of Izuna it was like that, too.

Shiren was even more evil. It even had a puzzle room where it seriously pushed your mind to discover the tricks and secrets of the game that would get you to survive. It was always "just one more floor... make it just one more floor....." in that game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBNsdis1l0Q - a video of all the puzzles. at 3mins the puzzles starting getting REAL. At 6mins it has one of my favorite quirks. At around 13:50 that puzzle still makes me laugh ... I never solved all of them.

Key things to keep in mind: Like any rogue like, unless you are controlling the character, don't depend on it. I'm not too shocked about the princess. AIs are like items. The effects are gonna be beneficial and use them, but I think you're insane to think that they should be a perfect party member.
^_^ There is so much draw and appeal in the realization that the princess heals everything. Common formula, it seems. Items and skills can be double edged swords. An item that hurts an enemy oftens hurts you and an item that heal you often heals everyone else.
Try being surrounded by a bunch of enemies and using an explosive item that you know might just barely let you survive. Take the risk~ and pray that you are left with 1hp and WAIT WAIT WAIT and hope an enemy doesn't come along while you are trying to heal....

Or wait until you are trying to heal and you walk around the whole of the level with an enemy on your ass. At one point in Izuna I had a chain of like six enemies. T-T Leave me alone! It was seriously me, in a corridor. I'd take one enemy out, walk, turn and fight and kill, walk, turn and fight and kill. The entire time praying that I wouldn't run into an enemy in front of me.

:\ Or those fuggin water monsters that would wipe off the seals on my weapons.... bastards....

^_^ I wonder if this game will have those fun enemies that can hit you and make you go down one level. Prolly not, I dunno how that mechanic could safely work, but yeah, those were fun times too.

[Maxine MagicFox]

^ sorry, above post got rambly. I didn't notice it until I came back in and re-read it. I shouldn't post when I'm tired, I think.

[ElmntNinja]

[Maxine MagicFox]

I've not reached them yet. That's why I'm sorta holding out hope that the difficulty will ramp up here soon. I'm taking it slow atm. I've built a fort in second dungeon, am filling it up with explorers, and leveling up my new Wanderer. Getting ready for dungeon 3 run this weekend. (sucks I have so little time during the day to play )

[Ninten]

So I'm kinda curious, since I've never played any of the Mystery Dungeon games before: how's EMD for a greenhorn to the genre? Is it more accessible than the average MD game?