The Mosque Near Ground Zero

[Hanyou]

Controversy has recently arisen over the construction of a mosque near Ground Zero in New York city.

If you are somehow unfamiliar with this controversy, the following video summarizes the initial events:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDyPhDTIc0E&feature=channel[/youtube]

Here's a decent summary of what's happened since: []

In addition, President Barack Obama has endorsed the building of this structure, stirring up yet more controversy: []

Are you for or against it? What are your reasons? State them below.

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I will briefly state my own, and expound upon it later. I am not against the construction of this mosque, nor do I understand the position of those that are. While I realize there are some misgivings due to the attacks on the World Trade Center, there is no evidence that the people funding this church had anything to do with it, regardless of what controversial statements were made. Are we to condemn the Muslim religion as a whole for the reprehensible actions of a few?

Furthermore, there is the RLUIPA. [] This act, passed by Congress in 2000 and upheld in the Supreme Court decision Cutter v. Wilkinson, prevents discriminatory zoning. While its effect on this case is not absolute (it never got that far, since the mosque's construction has been approved at every level of city administration), it is at least worth considering in the grand scheme of things.

I am a proponent of state sovereignty, which means that if the city wanted to disallow the mosque, I would not endorse them being federally obligated to allow it. However, I would still disagree strongly with the decision. Either way, federal law is abundantly clear: freedom of religion applies to the states, and so state or city provisions which would discriminate against particular religious structures should at least be denounced.

[Sampson]

[Maxine MagicFox]

Honestly when I heard about this "controversy" I felt my respect for Americans go drop. I actually said ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!

It's bullshit. It's just a continuation of the cycle of hate. I'm shocked and stunned this would even be called "controversial".

Honestly, I hope the damn place is built in that spot just to piss off all my fellow Americans that actually do have an issue with this.

I do not blame the "religion" of the people who attacked us. I blame the people themselves. This is absurd and very saddening. I thought that Americans should be well above this.

It's disgusting and shameful.

[Sampson]

People are irrational.

Americans are people.

Americans are irrational. It's nothing new.

[Maxine MagicFox]

Another day, another hope shattered

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person in the world that is ok with multiple religions. I dunno if my religion is correct. I dunno if their religion is correct. And I honestly don't think that it matters: what matters is that I tried my hardest at the religion that I decided I believed in the most.

Not that I really think this is what the controversy is about. People need a scapegoat for their hate and "terrorists" is just too ambiguous. So, unfortunately, they picked "muslim". Many of our people have done disgusting things, too, but I don't want to be hated for it - I had nothing to do with it. And I feel it's just the same for them.

[scy]

Just to note, as far as atrocious acts throughout history are concerned, whites have been guilty of far more of them than pretty much any other race. They just happen to get a free pass and can be seen as an individual (i.e., the one who committed the crime is unrelated to the group); other races do not and the actions of others reflect on them as a whole (i.e., the one who committed the crime and the group are the same). It's a pretty common topic amongst Sociologists. Welcome to our world.

[Maxine MagicFox]

*sigh* sometimes I just can't wait to die and get to Heaven where everything will either A) make sense or B) it just won't fucking matter anymore. >_>

[Kinokokao]

Regarding the mosque, I agree with the general consensus here that the controversy is shameful.

It epitomizes why Islamic fundamentalists are wary of America and, indeed, hate it. Factions of Christian Americans clearly associate all Arabs with Islam and all Islam with hate/terrorism.

Because warfare based on eliminating a concept is always a good idea. [/sarcasm]

[Hanyou]

[scy]

[Hanyou]

[Kinokokao]

[Starfe]

I'm of the opinion that there is simply nothing wrong with building a mosque there, just as there would be nothing wrong with building any other house of worship. A small group of people perpetrated the terrorist attacks on 9/11, and it shouldn't matter what religion they subscribe to, because you can't use such a small sample size to make assumptions about a group as a whole. Just as bigoted Christians or over-zealous Atheists shouldn't be seen as the example of those particular groups nor should terrorists who happen to be Muslim. I do worry about vandalism and protests outside of the Mosque, but I see no reason why the site can't be used to build one.

[ABXYLR]

In history, when Muslims go break other countries holy spots, they go build mosques over it to signify victory or something.

It just isn't cool.

[ZetaNekoQuasiboat]

I don't think anyone is really addressing the actual issue properly. It's not really a debate about whether or not this Mosque is founded by terrorists or will have any terrorist activities. Pretty much everyone can agree that they do not have relations with terrorist groups (and obviously the government has checked and been verifying that so far).

The actual issue is more that many Americans are psychologically damaged by September 11th, and may even feel a hatred towards the Muslim faith because of it, even though it's not the Muslim faith's fault. (This is a key idea to understand, part of human psychology and placebo)

Now, all of us here can sit around and just call these Americans stupid and say extreme things like they should all die...etc.., but actually in reality I would argue it is rather psychologically normal for a percentage of people to feel traumatized in this situation, even though it wasn't actually Muslims who did it.

Please read on to understand my argument before you may conclude that you've already disagreed with it.

Now to better understand what I mean, think of phobias. Generally, a phobia exists because say, when you were younger you had a bad experience with something and every time you see that thing it reminds you of the experience. Let's say for example when I was 5 years old at a birthday party, there was a clown and he assaulted me in some kind of way which made me feel very scared and hurt. Now, let's say I'm now 19 years old, and I forgot all about my experience when I was 5, but whenever I see a clown I get scared. This is very psychologically normal, and as you can see it's not that clowns are bad or anything, it's just that my mind may think they are and associates them with that unpleasant experience I had when I was younger.

So now applying this logic to the situation, we have people who feel traumatized by Muslims, and they may even deep down inside, their minds are racist towards them, or may not be, but the idea of the mosque existing near ground zero actually causes them to cry, feel unstable and miss their loved ones. Again, I'm not saying this is the case for everyone, but this is the case for a lot of the people who really want to get rid of this mosque.

There's also the reverse side of things. Many Muslims were discriminated against shortly after September 11th attacks were obviously psychologically hurt too, so the idea of this mosque being built and if it can be accepted will help them feel a bit more accepted in the society as well.

So now, given that explanation, there is a completely new way to think about this problem. It's basically Emotion VS Emotion, both parties have been traumatized by September 11th in some way. Now my personal opinion is that it's not wrong to feel any kind of emotion (Though it may be wrong to act on it, and totally depends on the situation). And given all of this I'm unsure of my actual opinion of whether I think the mosque should be built. Ideally I would like it to be built and for the psychological trauma on both sides to disappear, but I know it's not realistic, so I'm still thinking about it.