Golden Deer Pub Community Forums

Sorry that I took so long to respond to this, Emrin.

It's pretty clear that we both agree that it's way better for kids not to be killing themselves.

Where I disagree with your position is that you (if I understand correctly) attribute a kind of philosophical or political agenda to gay teenaged suicides. Your premise is that they usually kill themselves because they think some moral goal will be achieved (i.e. other gay people will be accepted more). In other words, you claim that their suicides are generally something calculated, a sacrifice for the greater good, and these suicides would stop taking place if they could see the flaw in their logic.

My response is that this paints a picture of suicide that is simply unrealistic. People kill themselves because they suffer, are overwhelmed by their suffering, and see no way out.

Certainly many suicide victims may believe something good might come of it, at least as a way to calm themselves or make their choice more bearable. For instance, they might feel relief at the thought that loved ones would miss them, that tormentors would feel guilty, that society might change, or any number of other possibilities. But to say that people kill themselves with the sole intent of achieving such an outcome is not portraying suicide fairly.

So, a teen being bullied or abused for being gay might hope that the tormentors will change their ways and that people will be more aware if he or she commits suicide. But this isn't the motivation for doing it. At most, it's a side benefit, a way to lighten the situation. There are dozens of other ways to make bullies feel guilty that would be much better. The teen's problem is feeling trapped and in intolerable despair.

I don't believe suicide will be prevented by addressing a flawed rationale about bullying, because suicide isn't a rational action. Emotional pain is real, and too often we think we can spare ourselves it if we learn to ignore situations.

If you're depressed because of how peers treat you, you cannot ignore that. It is bigger than hearing the word "faggot" or "dyke" occasionally. It is being ostracized, demeaned, humiliated, and left in an environment filled with social threats and few ways to gain support. This has a powerful effect on health.

Absolutely, we want to learn effective ways of dealing with the pain and stress. But we can't just toughen up and ignore, not be affected by it. I know I've never been able to.

I mislead you again, I'm sorry lol

My main and sole point is I don't understand the fact that some, not all, homosexual teens that I've heard of that commit suicide do so because they think that it's is for the greater good. I don't think that every homosexual commits suicides because they thinks it's the best thing to do; I'm only pointing out one small detail that some gay teens have shared. I don't agree with that view and I push farther towards moving past hurtful remarks and becoming stronger so one can repel names and actions that others take against them. In other words: we have control over ourselves and we shouldn't allow others to sway us to their liking.

Jubelon: Even though you can't quite ignore the name calling you are still alive. You haven't given in and you still move forward in life. You're telling me that by choosing to continue to live and not succumbing to others you have shown strength and the power to deal with what others say even if just by a small amount. You may not notice it but you're much stronger than many others out there. It's people like you who paint good pictures of the rest of us.

On the other hand, it'd be much more convenient if I could die.

PLA is immortal, who knew?

My brother was suicidal at one point, he thought he was gay (but isn't) and was paranoid from continuous weed use and just being surrounded by really shitty homophobic people day in, day out. Luckily he called me and I got him out of that situation. He quit his university and moved to work part-time at my university for a while, met good people, dated people who weren't awful and got his head straightened out.

Some people don't have such lifelines and I can totally understand how they can't see any way out.