Of Feminism and Semantics

[Kinokokao]

Women are treated as sex symbols, little more. Look at their portrayal in video games, for crying out loud. Movies, as well, plus advertising and television.

And "just the way it is" doesn't make it right. Blacks can't use the water fountains! Well, too bad, that's just the way it is. Men can't be teachers because that's a pink collar job! Well, shut up, that's just the way it is. No. Sorry, doesn't work.

Just because society has chosen to embrace the hegemony doesn't make it right and doesn't mean we have to stop fighting against it. Things like this are just one small part of a much bigger whole.

[scy]

[Seniwac]

[Kinokokao]

[Vapour Trail]

[scy]

[Kinokokao]

Now it is my turn to be lazy with my research, but I'm thinking of a very specific article that talked about the issues of women in the engineering fields and the lack of mentors. Most women drop out of the engineering fields when in their 30s and 40s.

As for society, I don't mean men. I mean society that, yes, lies about the truth of the situation. There are female engineers, and women are good at math, but the problem is that lies and misconceptions persist in popular context. Test scores show that boys and girls are even on math performance up until about the 8th grade. It is theorized that girls by this point are absorbing the social stigmas and "scientific fact" that men are naturally better at numbers and spatial reasoning. Also, boys are encouraged by their parents/teachers and even, to an extent, their peers. Having been in public school, I can attest there is definitely some sort of reverse pride in being considered bad at math among girls. Being bad at school is seen as cool, yes they still make As and Bs without actually learning. Someone who likes to read? Lame! Why are you reading a book, is it for a class? Man I hate to read because I am so cool!

Like I said, it isn't so much a structured barrier as one of attitude. You try being the only woman in the boardroom, for example. There are perceptions of strong women as bitches, or smart women as somehow inferior to beautiful ones. And let's not get started on the problems of maternity and careers!

[Vapour Trail]

By "society" you may not mean men, but you do come across as blaming men with comments like, "The men may not be consciously discriminating, but they do nonetheless by the constant male-dominance of the field." That's like me blaming all white people for the lack of asian-americans in showbusiness. It's a romantic notion, I guess, but I don't think that's entirely the cause.

The thing is, if women want more representation in technical fields, then they basically are going to have to pick those majors and enter those fields, even if the playing field is against them. There is simply no other solution. I guess I'm just waiting for a time when armchair activism (griping about unfairness on the internet, etc.) gives way to some sort of attempt at a pro-active solution (feminists giving up on liberal arts majors, and going into math and science related fields, for example) because the latter has a much bigger impact than the former. If they don't, then the lack of women in those fields is, if anything, the fault of women rather than men as far as I can tell.

Also, this probably sounded hella confrontational, but I don't intend it to come across that way. Just saying, is all!

RE: Public school. I attended one as well. The stigma against intelligence applies to boys as well as girls, at least from my experience. Nobody likes the smart kids, because people are assholes.

[Kinokokao]

No, I agree. I worded that very awkwardly, but I'm thinking of the situation in which men are like "Hey, bro club! ALL RIGHT" while there's a woman trying to read across the gender lines. That is to say, perhaps less awkwardly if I'm able, is that men may not say "Hey, you're a woman, tits or get the fuck out" but that they may, for example, never talk to Susan the Engineer whereas Jim, Tim and Bob are on the same fantasy baseball league. Because Susan lacks the social networking that is crucial to advancing her carer or, more simply, making her feel comfortable and welcomed in her job environmental, her growth in that field is stunted. Jim, Tim and Bob are perfectly nice to Susan. They don't slap her on the ass or call her toots. But Susan is lacking role-models and mentors, or even just peers, to which she can bond and flourish with.

I'm also thinking specifically of the article I read, which I found through reddit, and many of the comments were just affirming the "TOUGH COOKIES" attitude. I suppose a better way to word it might be that genders do not often enough put themselves in the other's shoes, so to say. I don't mean that you need to wear high heels, but that common ground exists and, better yet, we can view each other as equals on merit rather than whether or not we have an active Y chromosome.

As for women entering the science and engineering fields, I agree, we need to do it. I'm a liberal studies major; what can I say, I don't like math! Doesn't have to do with the fact that I am a woman, but that my talents lie elsewhere. I'm pursuing history, which is definitely a male-dominated field at least in my part of the country. Professors may not realize it, but male ones tend to gravitate toward male students. That is to say, no professor has ever scorned me for being a woman, but there us definitely a "brotherhood" type attitude that gets perceived as being exclusionary.

Although, to be fair, there's many of the reverse also going on. I gravitate toward female professors because they tend to teach more of the social history that I prefer, rather than the dry, political/military. This isn't at all universal; it's mostly in the younger, newer professors that I find a refreshing dynamism in how the subject is approached. I am hopeful that many of these issues will fade in time with the generational shifts.

[scy]

[ZetaBladeX13]

It's hard for me to believe that these people call themselves Feminists:
(bringing up past and present retarded Feminazis)

Past: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/BitingBeaver

Present: http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/07/24/ ... ontroversy

[scy]

*remembers Resident Evil 5 controversy*

I hate everyone.

[ZetaBladeX13]