Hello (now with free questions!)

[Big G]

[eharper256]

Whew, you did Chimera at Lvl 14? That's pretty impressive. I'm just around Lvl 16 myself (with two different groups though, in my case) and feel I need a little more before taking him on.

Well, I don't know what you're thinking, but doing 15-20 odd fights at your level before needed to retreat sounds about right for EO. Less, if you've just got to a new stratum, because there's invariably a sudden power creep.

A beast typically acts as a suicidal protector, from what I've heard about the Loyalty thing. I guess, theoretically, it could work from the back row, but like any melee attack, don't expect it to do much.

Survivalist has REALLY been nerfed, damage-wise. They are only for utility purposes now. Admittedly, their utility prowess is second to none, with Stalker, Ambush, all the resource gathering powers et. al. but the low-ish strength means bow shots do little; and Apollon isn't as good either.

Hexxer suddenly becomes more useful when they max one of their skills, like Torpor or Poison. Before then, the curses don't go off with sufficient frequency to be worth it.

Whip DH makes bosses alot easier due to Climax being broken. Sword DH is no longer quite as good as EO1, but I'm enjoying using one in my secondary party since Drain is still good fun.

[Big G]

Sorry, maybe I typed it in the wrong order - I did Chimaera at lvl18/19, before I rested

It was a close one, my Protector had just picked up lvl1 Smite and while it only hit for about 60 damage each time, those four or five hits were enough to win me the fight. I doubt I would have won without it.

Beast does look like it fills the niche of suicidal protector more than anything else, but I guess I'll give it a try as a damage-dealer and keep my protector as he is.

Re: Hexers, I did find that, unless I waited until lvl20 to use any of my skill points, and I wanted my Hexer to be of any use then Poison needed a point or two, along with Frailty and the other one like it so I just slapped one or two points in each. The Debuffs hit every time although I assume that's the actual attraction to them? The poisons and curses, however, NEVER hit so I gave up on them.

How many points does poison/terrify/curse need to hit reliably? and what % to hit are they at max level?

I'll regroup at the guild tonight, make a fresh party and let you know how it turns out. I don't like conforming to super-builds much, I just like making a party I like and think is cool and maybe, just maybe, crazy enough to work

My angle with employing a survivalist in place of my Hexer was that it would be impossible for anyone to be doing LESS than the hexer, because she was doing absolutely nothing. So with just one point in Stalker/Ambush they'd be of more use at the moment.

Quick question before I forget, what is the % chance of the DH's Viper skill landing a poison as well as damage? Ie: at 5/10 will it hit often enough to rely on a poison helping me out, or will it need maxxing to even get to ~60-70%, which is still not incredible chances. I think, what I mean to determine is - Should Viper be looked at as a damage-dealing skill, or a poison skill that also does a bit of damage?

Thanks

[Kimiko]

Hi BigG! Welcome to ItL!

I can't contribute to the number crunching discussion, but I can say that in Etrian Odyssey most parties that are reasonably diverse are 'crazy enough to work', so just go with what seems fun to you

[Maxine MagicFox]

Yo, Big G! Welcome to the forums :3 ! Glad that you found us.

I'm terrible with numbers. The only thing I gotta say is in response to your first post about needing to retreat after about 10 or so battles. Like eharper told you - that's VERY common and... it's not going to change too much. Maybe in EOI you could spend a little longer in the labyrinth, but EOII seems especially harsh. Monsters take huge junks out of you and unless you unlock and bring a fair amount of TP-restorers and some other health items, your healer's magic is gone way too quickly. I actually think that especially in the last stratum, things get worse.

Tch, I swear to God, I spent most of the near end game material just running from battles and avoiding them just to get things mapped out >_<. Not recommended for the start of the game when you need to level up.

[Big G]

Well, I've got my team of 5 Survivalists to go and grab all the plants and, now they've lvl'd up a bit, some ore from the mining points too. One of the plants, I think it's the Sour Fruit and/or the Green Nut, says it restores some TP, so I could go and grind lots of plants for a bit, then instead of selling it all, save 10-15 of them for my main party to keep them in the field a bit longer.

I'm not particularly enjoying my War Magus now my Hexer has been put on the backburner (not that he was the most useful anyways, but he healed well enough) so I'm thinking of replacing him with a Medic.

What are you guys' feelings on Landsknechts by the way? It seems the general consensus is that they aren't that great but in my party she was hitting for more damage, and faster, than my Ronin was. That may have just been because the Ronin had worse skill point placement but even so, certainly not a class to scoffed at.

I'm thinking of hitting up the following party at the moment:

L/P/R
M/A

now, if I were to throw a Dark Hunter in there, which should I replace with him/her, the Landsknecht, the Protector, or the Ronin?

[Kinokokao]

I didn't use my Landsknecht much in EOII, but only because I wanted to try new classes (I had two Landsknechts in my EOI party!). But if you cue up the chaser skills with the Alchemist and Ronin, I believe they can be quite useful.

However, if you were to replace someone with a DH, I would choose the Landsknecht. The Ronin, especially at later levels, delivers a nice auto-attack damage as well as being a strong FOE/boss attacker. The Protector class, IMO, is just crazy useful. This is my party:

P/R
S/M/G

The Protector/Ronin combo up front works well, since usually the Protector can take the abuse while my Medic heals the Ronin. I have maxed out the Ronin's HP Up and Vitality, too, so that she is more durable.

As for Beasts, I used one for quite a while, but I found him an ill-suited replacement for the Protector, and having both limits offense. I wouldn't recommend the class unless you truly wanted a "Crazy party" or just don't care for what is most effective. Without loyalty, which is just broken, there isn't much to do with the Beast. Maybe he'd be a good defender for a Survivalist/gathering party.

Oh, and on Survivalists... I like mine just fine. While it's true that she isn't a huge damage dealer, she's dependably quick, has good utility skills, and her 2-shot attack is surprisingly deadly.

[scy]

[eharper256]

[Big G]

[scy]

Just to clarify, Ronin stances don't do anything for their skill damage either. The game doesn't check for the stances to apply the appropriate damage; it checks two other skills altogether (Healer and Warlore? It's something Ronin's don't have anyway) so the Ronin never gets their damage bonus from their "Weapon" Skill.

The only issue with a Landsknecht chasing is that, personally, you sacrifice a lot to get the chasing. Sure is nice when you get 3 Chases, yes, but it also means using attacks that are inherently weaker.

Either way, the game isn't hard enough to make any of this relevant pre-Dragons / 6th Stratum and it's not that big of a deal even then. Then again, I think I'm in the minority on finding EO/EO2 easy

Edit: Ricochet isn't "broken" per se ... it's just that it was designed as an AE attack skill that, due to the design (hits for X-Y times as opposed to hits all targets) lends itself to be an amazing single-target attack. Rampage is far more broken, albeit highly inaccurate (plus you need a Loyalty 10/10 Beast...).

Edit2: Also for the chasing, you can keep around the Fire/Ice/Volt Oils (to imbue weapons for normal attacks -> chase) or Jars (to cast their respective spell) to trigger chases for your non-Elemental users, making any group capable of triggering 4 Chases for 800% Damage from the Landsknecht.

[eharper256]

[Kinokokao]

[Big G]

[eharper256]

My gunner has gone from strength to strength and is now the highest levelled member of my two parties (22) despite my initial reservations. Especially if you can unlock a Matchlock for them to use in the first stratum(can do so fairly early if you go mining). Mine just picked up a Godhunter to use as well (Heehee!)

Yeah, I put 1 point into Fireshot/Voltshot; then immediately went for Guns 10 to unlock Ricochet. Which is now 5th level and is just as totally broken as people say it is. Well, at least against single targets. Its not ~quite~ as effective vs. mobs, but thats what the Ronin's Orochi/Kienzan is for.

After that, its up to you. Weakshot, 2-Shot and suchlike are good choices, but if you don't have a binding specialist, you could think about grabbing Headshot and its pals. Snipe if you want something fast and accurate. Medishot if you don't have a Medic to do that job.

Avoid the Risk-Shots, they're not worth it. Its debateable whether its worth putting extra points into the elemental shots as well.

My ideal build plan is:
[spoiler]HP Up 5
TP Up 10
TEC Up 1
AGI Up 5
Guns 10
Fire Shot 1
Ice Shot 1
Volt Shot 1
2-Hit 10
WeakShot 10
Snipe 5
Ricochet 5
MediShot 5
HaltShot 3[/spoiler]
Modify at will, however.