Golden Deer Pub Community Forums

@Song of Ice and Fire

Yes, third person, but each chapter uses a different viewpoint character, and those chapters are third person limited. Each book uses different view-point characters, and some appear in more than one book, or, for a handful of major characters, all the books. It's a very "epic" series -- lots of characters, multiple motives and plot threads, lots of political intrigue and backstabbing, and very little character development* yet oodles and oodles of character building.

Goodreads is like online bookshelf that you share with your friends. You can see what they're reading, what they've reviewed, and what they want to read. I like using it for what I mentioned; personal record keeping, and hunting down new reads. They have list and tagging systems that make finding niche titles fairly intuitive, and the wide user base assures a varied and comprehensive selection of titles. I've prowled the M/M fantasy lists so much that it's become almost amusing... Flewelling tends to top them all, which is so surprise since hers can collect mainstream fantasy fans since it lacks explicit content, for the most part, and boasts impressive subtly compared to, say, Havemercy or, "worst" yet, the God Eaters.

*let me define what I mean. The characters certain grow and develop, but their interactions are rather flat -- there's no grand romance, or one central main character that you get to root for. It isn't like in Goodkind, where Richard and Kahlan were TEH ROMANCE and TEH GOOD GUYS -- characters don't meet and fall in love, you don't really get up close and personal with them, they don't form close friendships and share heartfelt moments, not really. The story moves swiftly and it's driven mostly by plot,which suits the breadth and scope of the geography and of the pacing. Character development centers over more personal, inward themes, and less about interpersonal character development. I don't mind, it's a nice change of pace, but you'll find no Royston/Hal type development here, my dear.

My recommendation of the series is which a caveat. If you love epic fantasy, by all means why haven't you read this already. You, personally, Jubelon? I'm not so sure you'd like it. You'll probably have the same reaction as me, which is appreciation for the writing/worldbuilding, mad respect for the crafting and execution of the plot/characters, and general interest in the story itself.

It's definitely not the "punched in the gut" reaction I've had when reading my gay wizards, but it's fun.

^_^ I only have three friends name: Archaic, Trifkin, and Kino. So, no, I don't think you could have screwed up that up, Kino.

:3 I'm really enjoying Good-reads a lot which I found because A) Archaic made an LJ post about it and then B) there was an app on my nook for it. :3 So I was like "why not?"

Haven't regretted it.

@1st to Die - Yeah, it's a rather shallow read that if you hinge too hard on what is said and some of the circumstances of it that you'll end up not enjoying it. I think that's part of the reason all his books are written with such a brisk pace and short chapter lengths; so that you're keeping the page turning as things occur rather than stopping to let some of the not-so-great things linger in your mind.

A Spoiler to come back to when you're done.


@Game of Thrones/ASoIaF - I'd say there's a bit more personal growth than you make it seem Kino but, otherwise, I pretty much agree. Your character growth that occurs is more in response to the situation at hand rather than amongst their fellows. There's a few notable exceptions but they're the exceptions rather than the rule. The series is built more on the events that transpire and how this vast group of characters go through these events rather than the intermingling of every single actor on the stage.

Oddly, I'd say Game of Thrones. Unbiasedly I'd probably remark it as one of the weakest entries overall but it was also my first time really giving a "fantasy" story a shot as I fucking loathe high fantasy so it stands out to me for that. It does a damn good job of starting up the story, though, and getting you sucked in if you allow it; it's woven rather well and considering how much it needs to try to get done in terms of characters, it does a rather marvelous job at it.



As for the events and story and all that, I'd probably agree with Rain on A Storm of Swords overall. Just that, to me, Game of Thrones stands out for reasons beyond the story itself.

@1st to Die:
I'm the sort of person that I say even Dan Brown is a wonderful author despite his lack of character development and cookie-cutter schemes, though many others argue with me (while at the same time I think Stephen King is an awful writer, but we've been through this and clearly I'm the only one who thinks this). I doubt I'll be TOO bothered by it, however, even Dan Brown does not let me know that the "author is there".

BUT he does have good character development. His singular problem so far just seems to be "I need to hit this bullet point in the story, so I'm going to force it a little fast". I think if he bothered to take things slow and let his characters work things out it could have been done, but at the expense of extra pages which slows down pace (which since his pace is his strong suit maybe he knows this and just cuts his losses). I doubt it will be a problem from what I've seen so far. I'm still reading and enjoying myself :3

*mutters* Holy crap. After I finally finished going through my list and updating it with books that I read in 2011, I was left with the fact that I have already read 27 this year alone. :3

... Meh, no I won't delude myself. 10 of those books are the Ranger's Apprentice series which I chewed through and then 6 more of those were the Warriors series.

^_^; I read books that sometimes only have 200 some pages. Meh, oh well. :3 It still all counts, right? Hahaha. I'm still impressed.

I should start trying to leave back reviews as I complete books as well. :\ Would anyone ever bother to read them, I wonder?

I would! I get email alerts when my friends update anything and I always look for reviews.

@Kino - If your name starts with an L and is adorable, I just got the alert yesterday. I was confused at first, but then I saw you were friends with Miss Maxine and figured it out. : 3 Do we really have last names that are also inanimate objects?

my last name is so fucked up. *sigh* >_>; I'm not even a "fisher" as in "fisherman"... I'm... a "fischer"... what the fuck is a "fischer"?

... I wonder what would happen if I googled my last name to try to find the meaning or etymology of it.

@Trifkin

Yes, indeed, that would be me ^^

@Jubelon

Absolutely it's become a standard. Monette is my standard for character/world-building and total "grab your heart and refuse to let it go" moments -- the type of story that utterly changed me when I read it, that utterly consumed me. But Havemercy? That one is the "dokidoki" champion.

And agree with Flewelling -- I liked her books, and I like her characters, and I do consider her to be the mainstream gay fantasy author, just because of her popularity, accessibility, and the fact that the books have been around for a while. As for overall enjoyment and overall gay romance content -- no, I don't think that crown belongs to her. She deserves cred, but it amuses me to see the same books over and over on the same lists. Huff, strangely, doesn't get the credit she deserves. The Fire's Stone was the first gay fantasy I ever read, and that fact alone makes it dear to my heart, even though I'll fully admit it isn't all that great.

@Scy

You said exactly what I was trying to say far more eloquently. We are in exact agreement. There's character development and personal, inward growth, but barely any development between characters. It's almost refreshing, to be honest. I'd not enjoy the series half so much if it had a Goodkind-esque sappy romance.

Maxine - 'Fischer' is just German for fisher. Nothing mysterious about it.

Oh, yes

@ASOIAF (book 3 spoilers)

Jaime's just a BAMF.

Why are novilizations of movies so much better than the movies?

I went and bought the Spider-Man 1 book, and it is simply amazing.

I don't want to watch movies anymore .___.