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I never said I hate cliches. I said I hate those two in particular. It's a sign of terrible writing, to me, when they write themselves into Deus Ex Machina situations; it's terrible writing to me when the only way to get you to make me like a character and understand the weight of their journey is to make them the Chosen One.

It's not always the case but, at the same time, it's not the best sign when they're used.

And Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire is far more than palace politics, much like I wager you'd argue <random_novel_you_like> is more than "lolspells." Though I can't deny that almost everything that occurs is the actions of the pieces in action and how those decisions impact the relations of everyone. However, I like that a lot better than "We did stuff, hooray."

Edit: But debating on it to convince you (or myself on your stuff) otherwise is futile; even if it works, it goes into the reading biased and taints the outcome.

:\ I don't think I've ever read a book that I felt like the author neglected his characters... oh... well, there was 1st to Die, where I felt the author was pushing the characters into certains directions, but I felt that they could have reached them sooner or later anyways so I wasn't all that perturbed.

But yes, Jubelon, I think that's pretty much how I feel about fantasy. It's not always about the fantastic. I mean, Ranger's Apprentice doesn't have a drop of magic in it (arguably... the main villain seemed as if he was set up to be a magician of some sort but later the author corrected it to be "hypnosis" or something) but I love the story because of the world and the characters and how they react to things and the situations they find themselves in. Book 1 probably has the weakest plot but I loved the life-and-times-of-training feeling. I don't think I've ever loved a scene more than how Halt ends up helping Horace. Plot wise, though, I think books 3 and 4 were the best.

Still, I think you're coming off with a wrong impression of me just slightly. Magic is the best but it's not a requirement. Ranger's Apprentice and Warriors don't feature magic. Then of course there's Temeraire which just has DRAGONS but nothing else (it's history even!). And of course there's Hunger Games.

I am realizing, though, that I am developing a slight deterrence towards wizard-wars. Which is odd considering how Ranger's Apprentice was so full of wars. Still, if you asked me to try to read through Tolkien I don't think I could. I like The Hobbit more these days. Also Harry Potter was fun up until book 4.

Oh and Elves... with fucking complicated names... actually a lot of fantasy story names piss me off. The whole Tolkien-esque name thing is just getting old fast. I like knowing how to pronounce a character's name.

I dunno... *sigh* there's just something about these elements that turn me off while they don't in others.... :\

i grew up reading constantly

i haven't finished a novel in over a year

eat my shorts

I think it's been four years now for me. I too read lots and lots when I was younger (well, basically up until about four years ago). No thanks @ the shorts though.

Well, on the matter of time vs. reading, I thought that the book club having a deadline would force everyone to make time for reading. How many hours do you spend doing other things, when you could be reading?

As for your concern, Maxine, about us not wanting to read your recommendation -- that's the beauty behind the "everyone gets to pick the book" rotation. We'd have to read your selection and, you know what, I bet we'd like it! Sure, I'm not going to go out and grab a YA book about a peasant girl who finds out she's the chosen dragon rider/goddess reborn, but if I have to read it the book club, I'm going to read it with an open mind about liking it!

And another soothing to your fears about time -- I specifically want to include a rule that books must be fairly short. I'm thinking nothing much beyond 400 pages, ideally books in the 150-300 page range -- absolutely nothing massive or dense, so no Atlas Shrugged, no War and Peace, no Anthem, etc. The idea is to pick short(ish), stand-alone novels (no first books in a series!) for group discussion.

As for organization concerns, Jubelon... *shrugs* I guess it depends on how many people want to join! Like I said, I'd start a spin-off thread and use the first post in that thread to keep track of members, book selections, book due dates, discussions, etc. My idea, so I volunteer to help keep track of everything. As for the order of who picks the book -- doesn't really matter much to me, so either I'll randomly pick using some dice-rolling, so popular consensus, or a fight to the death.

Stand alone-ish.....

....

*goes through her nook to find a book that is not part of a series*

... You know what Kino. I think the last book that I read that was not part of a series was Redemption of Althalus back in '01.

*nibbles on her pen* ... Errrm... wow that's a very restrictive rule. I think we should negotiate on this one? Or am I the only one?

I do like the page count idea, though. ^_^ I could easily do that one. Not a single one of my books have gone over 300 since I stopped reading Sword of Truth series. Well I did buy those old classics but that doesn't exactly count, haha. But more importantly, I know then that there's a chance I would be able to get through the book and to fit it into my life.

I DO think that we should add a rule that's something about keeping away from books that are mainstream. Series or not, I don't want to have a book recommended to me that I've probably walked past a dozen times before and could pick up myself. I mean, I know that's kind of a subjective one, sorta, but I just don't want to see books like Game of Thrones or Harry Potter (just using examples) on the list. However, at the same time I would like books like Miss Peregrin's Home for Peculiar Children to be recommended, even if it is popular. Am I making sense here? :\

I would totally be up for a book club! It would give me an excuse me to read more, and that is always, always a good thing.

There's a book club in my school. At the moment, reading the sadness of lemon cake.

Well, think about trying to discuss just the first book in a planned trilogy and long series. How can you evaluate a book whose story is incomplete? The characters never complete their journey, the plot doesn't get resolved -- the "Monster of the Week" might be defeated, but the rest of the story, the crux of the matter, isn't resolved. It's unfair, I think. That isn't to say the book can't have sequels -- Howl's Moving Castle springs to mind -- and if I get out-voted on this rule that's fine. I just thought it was a good idea.

And besides, you don't have to pick a book you've already read. You can, certainly, because re-reading is always a pleasure, especially if it's something you haven't read in a long while, but consider using this as an opportunity to branch out and discover new things!

As for mainstream ... that is very subjective. The first book in a series rule would already cover Game of Thrones and Harry Potter anyway -- because just try to think about discussing either of those in isolation. But banning all mainstream titles? I'm not sure what you mean anyway. There's a fine line between accessible (so everyone can find a copy) and interesting for discussion (so that not everyone has already read it) -- I mean, we can see how things work out once the club's actually gotten underway, but I shouldn't think that would be a problem. Hell, if people even want to agree to some kind of blackball rule, that's fine by me. Something like each member gets to blackball one suggestion everyone so often -- either because you already read it and hated it, or just absolutely do not under any circumstances want to read it. Just a suggestion. It's whatever you guys want.

The point of not recommending a book that is part of a series is that it doesn't culminate into anything; it goes on afterwards. The point is to be jointly reading books that will finish there rather than give a taste of things to come; you recommend something and your recommendation ends with the book, not "and there's 7 more after this to enjoy teehee."

Though, what of books that are part of a series that actually have no direct ties to each other?

As for no mainstream, it's Kino's idea so pardon if I'm talking out of my ass here, but ... what? The point is to recommend books that you wouldn't have read. The fact that you "could have" is irrelevant. Have you or have you not read it? No? Then read it; status be damned. That said, it's meant for passing around more niche or otherwise unknown books so mainstream-ish titles will probably be left out not by rule but by the structure itself.

Piggy-backing on to what Scy said, on the matter of first books:

If you've read the whole series, and tell the book club to read the first book, how fun is that for everyone? Horribly not fun, because you know how it all ends. We're on unequal footing for discussion, and the whole point of a book club is that everyone's read the book recently and can discuss it together. The club can't discuss the whole series, because no one except you has read the series!

And, Scy, does this mean you'll join the book club? ^__^ please do! I really want enough people so we'll have a good discussions and get to read a wide variety of books.

So far for members I have:

Kinokokao
Jubelon
Trifkin

And maybe:

Maxine Magicfox
Scy

????

Anyone else? Come on, guys! It'll be fun! :3

Always ready for another book club to join.




So like, a scheduled irc chat on #itl or something for discussion, or just here

*nods* Yeah, that's fine, then.

I just know that I would definitely like to recommend Goblin Quest at one point. I so enjoyed the book. Scy brought up a good idea: what about the books (like Goblin Quest) that while they are part of a "series" the adventure ends in a very satisfying manner that it could be considered "stand alone".

Also that comes up to mind are mystery novels as I say this. I would like to see them listed, but I can't think of a single one that doesn't come in a series or a set.

Still, another book is Miss Peregrin's Home for Children that I would enjoy seeing recommended that does not state is part of a series but the ending is very open ended and just SCREAMS that there will be a sequel, and the author has indicated she fully intends to write another one (there are still pictures she has not used, afterall, hahaha).


After hearing Scy's talk about the structure of the club itself, I'll concede the point about the mainstream thing. And it IS too subjective to try to put a rule on it. I felt that even as I was writing it. Let's at least state 'non mainstream titles are more welcome'?