Golden Deer Pub Community Forums

Flashbacks are good if implemented correctly (like in It or Trilby's Notes). Although I do agree that they can end up being used as information dumps and such.
Either way, I'll end up using them anyway, mainly because I can't see any better way to do want I want to do.

@Flashback

I would be extremely wary of using them to reference an earlier part of the story, Maxine.

[spoiler]

TRITE USE OF FLASHBACKS MAKES ME WEARY TOO YO
[/spoiler]

As opposed to, what, hoping they just remember some detail after a long stretch of time?

[spoiler]Actually, I'd prefer that. Fuck this hand holding business. External analepsis > internal imo; I'd rather a flashback be adding details, not reminding. I wouldn't say it's insulting to the reader but it does place a lack of faith in your own writing (and/or the reader) if you think something must be brought up again otherwise it would be forgotten.

Of course, if it's a small detail that had no significance at the time, I suppose it's more valid ... though one can't help shake the retcon feel of it ("HAY GUYS REMEMBER THAT ONE THING AT THE START? NO?! LOL MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER") if it is done poorly.[/spoiler]

Personally, I don't hate flashbacks as a narrative device, just poorly done ones. It's not something to be shunned outright but, as noted, they tend to be used poorly pretty often (really just as a "HERE'S SOME VITAL INFORMATION WE DIDN'T TELL YOU ^_^ lulz"). I wouldn't avoid it but would definitely pay more attention to make it not a history lesson.

Though, I'm not sure how a flashback itself limits one from being "shown" something as opposed to "told" something. That's just down to the writing itself and not it being a flashback or not. Ah, maybe I'm missing something?

[spoiler]obligatory I hate writers[/spoiler]

[spoiler]ps, wary[/spoiler]

What Scy said about "retcon" is true. If the detail is important enough that it needs referenced later, than it should be threaded through the narrative. The "gotcha!" or reminder flashback, to me, seems like a Hollywood tactic of storytelling, and even then it's not a good narration technique. Your main themes and developments should be continuous used and have impact on the characters.

A good example of this is actually the Harry Potter books (esp. Book 6) when you have a major plot event that starts out as insignificant but is continually referenced for the big reveal at the end of the book --- not that it's a sterling example of storytelling, obviously, but certainly an accessible one.

The difference between showing/telling is something sort of like this:

You have two characters that hate each other for something that happened before the story began. We are shown this hatred through their actions and attitude. We are not simply told "Bob hated Steve" because this lacks impact and is in poor form.

Let's now say that Bob hates Steve because Steve slept with Bob's wife. This information needs to be conveyed to the reader for plot purposes.

A flashback to show this scene would lack any emotional impact and constitute telling the reader

A better tactic would be to show the reader by, say, Bob's wife showing up at the office and having an awkward encounter with Steve. Or maybe Bob and his wife have a fight and the infidelity gets referenced through their dialog. You want it to be current and relevant, not just an info dump.

The flashback actually seems more like showing to me, assuming that Bob catches Steve in the act, since you can show Bob's emotions and how any good will he had toward Steve morphed into extreme hate. Assuming the story is told from the perspective of Bob, having the flashback then having the encounter would be better, at least in my opinion. If the whole "you slept with my wife" factor is revealed just through a conversation between Bob and Steve, it would seem random or produced out of the blue. If small hints were placed before the conversation or there was any sort of build-up, then it would work better. That's my opinion, anyway.

I know it's just an example but I'd prefer details strewn about (not in flashback form, mind you) to hint the infidelity past as opposed to "SUDDEN WIFE APPEARANCE!" ... but you mentioned that anyway. Events can be shown just as well in a flashback, it just requires a change in how the events are written for the reader. I wouldn't exclude flashbacks for being able to "show" something to the reader.

That said, I do agree they tend to read more as history lessons, but that's not the fault of the device used. Truthfully, flashbacks are a more useful TV/Movie tool than in Literature. The "gotcha!" flashback retcons work well in TV when you're dealing with 20/45m of television and you're referencing earlier that episode (and it only takes a few seconds anyway); it's a different story entirely when you're doing it 5 books after it happened. I don't care how awesome of an idea it is, just find a new MacGuffin to attach it to rather than rewrite the past into something more important than it was.

It still has it's place, however; notably for retelling events. Character relationships, traits, and personality are better done through current event showing, though I'd argue the arguing and bringing up the infidelity is definitely a telling, not a showing. In this example, a flashback would serve better to explain the circumstances of the situation than anything else I can think of; for example, the interactions between the trio hint towards some deeper reason for the hatred. You are shown via a flashback that it's due to the infidelity ... and then you find out the flashback is Bob retelling the events of him finding out while confronting them. It is not flashback just for the information, but it's used to drive the narrative (unless of course there's no need for a confrontation, then I need a new plot device).

[spoiler]This is probably just from my like past two weeks of watching whodunit shows (marathoning NCIS currently since it's my Dad's FAVORITEST SHOW EVER) so I keep picturing flashbacks to crimes during this.

It is definitely a far better TV tool than it is for books though. Easily.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]On another tangent, fuck "it's a dream" bullshit.[/spoiler]

A lot of writers suck.

That's not really a retcon though so I wouldn't really think much on the whole "small detail now important" part. I'm talking about stuff that seem more like ass pulls ("lulz this rock we found earlier is really magic gem that SOLVESCURRENTPROBLEM") or retconning by changing the past of someone from "tough life raised to be self-reliant" to "PARENTS WERE SADISTIC MURDERERS TRAINING A KILLER" (I really shit you not, this has happened). Yours seems more like a Revision or a simple "ALL AS PLANNED" and not a Retcon.

Ret Conning is more of saying something later on to reframe the past to make it all fit together. It's primarily a Comic Book thing (fucking Marvel and DC) with changing the past to fit current plot lines (changing back stories to fit plot narrative, etc.). I have no idea how many times Superman, Batman, Spiderman, etc. have up and changed pasts for the sake of things.

Retcon, in your example, would be if now there's details about the picture standing out or having seen it elsewhere or knowing some legend involving the woman in it (or, hell, if the Chapter 3 part was omitted entirely, though it approaches ass pull status at that point). It being key to her current circumstance isn't retconning it really.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RetCon

[spoiler]ps, I don't think it needs the recap at all, it's not like there's a GOOD END FLAG question coming up after it and the reader needs to not fuck up. It really serves a better "aha!" moment that the character(s) figure it out and you figure it out with them, though I suppose the flashback works for that (since it's really what they'd do; remember an event).

I dunno, recapping the prior scene via repeating it seems a bit unnecessary; you can get by with partial quotes (like, "....woman dressed in a blue gown...") and it "aha"s as opposed to the whole thing. That way, the reader recalls it along with them, as opposed to re-reads it being remembered.

Then again, I say that with reading the two passages back-to-back so ... yeah. [/spoiler]

So I finished chapter two, mainly because I procrastinate way too much, and it is my first flashback chapter. To be fair, I didn't have any better way to show what I wanted to say (man gives woman necklace). It would be too boring to have the main character (Mortus) tell someone, "My dad gave the necklace to my mom." Instead I used a flashback where the father gives the mother (well, they're not parents yet, but...) and they promise to love each other forever, which has a nice little irony to it.

(I'm not going to give oodles of updates on this; I'm just using this as an example as a good time to use a flashback)

I'm currently on chapter 10 of my story (which starts on page 142). I've got it started and have some notes started for it, but I need to finish my notes. I'm NOT jumping into this chapter without having it mapped out.

:3 It's going to be a fun one, though. My characters are going to be running into Dragon Canyon, which is as lethal as the name suggests, to get something. They get it, get themselves stuck :3 and Maxine gets the bright idea to put themselves into an indestructible "glass" (not glass but you get the idea) ball. The end result: the game of dragon volley ball is about the invented! XD My poor characters! I have had this scene planned since I first started putting the story together. >:] I'm excited to finally get to writing it.