Discussion Thread II: Bots? What bots?

[Twat]

Why do middle-aged Asian ladies like me so much? Three of them have hugged me today alone.

It is like this person half my size comes out of nowhere and is running towards me like "WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN I NEVER SEE YOU ANYMORE" and I am just like "o.o..."

Thankfully I never forget a face.

[Maxine MagicFox]

*melts*

I'm so bloody tired today. Where did my DAY GO?!! Ok, I know I had work... that ended at 4pm. ....Everything after that is a blur and somewhere at the end of the day I'm staring at a clock that says 10pm and I've hardly had time to watch TV for myself or play a game or two.

What the hell....

[eharper256]

**RAGE**

Geez, social care team, if you're going to completely change your process of administration, would it be, you know, hard to actually let us know CONSIDERING us poor saps at duty ARE DOING THE ACTUAL PAPERWORK?!?

The amount of headaches I've had today is immeasurable. I felt like throwing my desk across the office. I'm not entirely sure why its cool at the moment to take your long tested and approved 25 year old process and chuck it out the window just for the lulz.

[/rage]

Phew... thats better. Needed some type therapy, I think.

[Kinokokao]

I discovered that the library lets you just re-login after your hour session has expired. Huh.

Of course, this doesn't take away from the fact that I'm supposed to be job-hunting, not dicking around on the interwebs.

And that I have a long list of errands to run.

>__>;;

[Twat]

[Maxine MagicFox]

Ok! This is intriguing and I wish to GOD that Kino was here because she could probably answer this.

My sister tells me that a teacher of hers last year told her a story that is she claims is true and scientific fact as well. It goes something like this:

During the medieval period when people were beheaded, the executioner use to lift up the severed head and show it to the body, because they believed that the head was still alive and they were giving the head a last look at their death (charming).

I can believe this and it seems plausible, but that's not the fun part. The rest of the story goes is that not only did they do this but then they also (actually, it might be an "or" - she can't remember the story and it was just conversation) showed the head to the crowd and actually commanded the head that if it were still able to hear to 'blink' or make some kind of motion -- and it did.

This is "because" the head is still alive for about 8 seconds or some odd length of time before the brain shuts down and dies.

The practical side of me says: "BULLSHIT!" but the other half of me (and the very gullible half, I'll mention) says: "maybe... I mean... synapses in the brain and all that... or maybe it's actually just a death reflex or something..."

If I remember, I'm going to try to research this a little deepr this weekend, but I wanted to see if someone with more knowledge than myself could shed some light on this very interesting story. Both me and Rissa are very interested in learning the validity of all parts of it; that A) the head was shown its body B) was shown to the crowd and asked to make some 'motion' C) it did D) is that even POSSIBLE?!

[scy]

Scientifically and/or medically speaking, it's possible; the head should live for a few seconds when severed since the actual severing isn't lethal to the brain but the oxygen deprivation is.

Edit: Just to note, I'm pretty sure this topic is rehashed a lot and there's no real conclusive proof that I'm aware of. Unless I missed some scientist beheading people to watch motor reflexes.

[Maxine MagicFox]

*nods* right, that's what the medical knowledge I have tells me. Still, I'm sure there's SOMETHING missing because even though it seems plausible there's still the part in me that screams BULLSHIT.

[scy]

[Maxine MagicFox]

[Twat]

[Aeiren]

Ooh... interesting.

*grabs the Popco.. I mean labcoat*

[noodles]

hey stop it guys i mean it jeez

[Kinokokao]

As Scy said, pretty much.

Lavoisier, as Scy pointed out, was a notable chemist and nobleman who was caught up in the Reign of Terror and beheaded. Being a scientific creature, he asked friends to observe how long he continued to blink after death. 15 seconds is the reported number. Of course, whether it was a death spasm or a genuine effort remains unknown. I'm sure there have been cruel animal experiences to test such things, but forgive me if I neglect to go looking. I'm aware of a notorious Soviet experiment in which dead dogs' and cats' brains were sent electrical current post-mortem to have the corpse walk on a treadmill. I've also seen videos of other Soviet experiments in which dead dogs' heads are seen to blink and bark, again, with electrical current being supplied to the brain.

My personal theory is that the brain uses up what oxygen it has with little electrical spasms, so, yes, blinking would be entirely likely in a beheaded head. As for this being conscious effort? I cannot say one way or another.

Pulling from history and being too lazy to confirm with a quick google, I believe it was Marie Antoinette who was beheaded so quickly and cleanly (thanks, Guillotine!) that her lips were said to still move with her last prayer. Before the guillotine, it may interest you to know, beheadings were a far more brutal affair. Executioners were often paid in advance by their more wealthier condemned to do a "clean job" of it -- basically not to end up like poor Mary, Queen of Scots, whose executioner took three whacks with the axe and then had to finish up with his knife to saw through the last remaining bits. Sometimes he'd miss and get the back of the head, or, perhaps worse if not less messy, aim too low and merely chop a chunk out of the individual's shoulders. In situations like these, the beheading itself would take sufficient time as to render any "living head" displays unlikely.

As for displaying the head to the body; I have never heard of this as a widespread practice. More likely the head would be displayed to those watching the beheading. For benefit of those not up close to the action, yes, the executioner would likely hold up the head as proof of the condemned's demise. This is also why putting heads on stakes proved so popular; what better way to prove that you have, in fact, slain your enemy than by displaying his head, sans body, outside your castle?

One further input: general European scientific consensus before the re-discovery of human anatomy and the function of the heart was that the seat of soul/body was in the head. Since they were unable to see and realize the function of the heart and blood circulation, it was assumed that the brain was the primary organ of life. That is to say, I fidn it entirely plausible that this medical theory taken in conjunction with anecdotal evidence of eyes/lips moving post-decapitation would result in the pervasive belief that a head was conscious after a beheading. Therefore, it is also entirely likely that some executioners and some people during some times and places find it cultural appropriate to display the body to the head one last time. As for this being a widespread "medieval" practice? Bunk. Pure trash.

Furthermore, it rankles me to hear of "medieval" generalizations. The "medieval" period, first of all, in a completely arbitrary designation created by the Enlightenment to describe what they viewed as a skip over between Rome and the Renaissance. Historians get into verbal fisticuffs trying to decide on what dates to encapsulate this arbitrary period, and don't even get them started on what geographic landscape even constitutes modern Europe, let alone historical. This rant, of which I could fill pages, is entirely unwarranted and I'll stop now.

[scy]

To up to cruelty, there was an experiment with a human head to see if it would do anything if pumped blood into it after severed (and dead for a few days). I believe the results were "it looked like it wanted to do something but couldn't", just in more scientific terms.