Golden Deer Pub Community Forums

Umineko Episode 6.

[spoiler]I will now associate Erika with the Kool-Aid Man. And by extension, Jonestown.[/spoiler]

I wonder how far I am in Episode 4. I remember so little (did I really watch this) that everything is so new as compared to the anime. :3 This is a really good arc, too.

Oh, I do remember getting confused by the flashbacks and shit and not understanding what the hell was going on. The VN cleared up SEVERAL confusions.

I watch Episode 5 of Higurashi whenever I'm feeling down. True story.

Though, that part has always bugged me.
[spoiler]It's not how Rika dies in Watanagashi-hen. Not sure why the anime does it that way to be honest.[/spoiler]

Edit: I also miss all the TIPS about getting wasted. Biggest loss in all of Higurashi? Probably.

i'm back kinda,
lookin for some good VN's I havn't tried yet.

So far my list is:
FNS
Ever 17
Kana
DiviDead
Crescendo
Yume Miru Kusuri
and a few others i may have forgot but if so they musta been bad =\
to play:
Wind: A breath of air

need to add to that list, last show of the summer coming up and i usually don't work much during the fall and winter so iso as many good ones as i can get.
brief description w/o spoilers would be nice too if you have time.

Umineko Episode 4
[spoiler]I'm not really too sure where the hell I even want to start with this. o_O; That was a lot of information shot out very very fast. I still have to go through and clean up my notes and put everyone in the order of Twilights which aren't as easy to decide this time since the stakes were put in different parts of the bodies, so I'll just use the rolling credits to go through and do it.

Ange's end in 1998 made very little sense. Where did the truth end and the 'lie' begin. Did she get shot and imagine it all? Or was she spared but obviously she died at same point that year since the credits clearly listed her death year. And what the FUCK was the big revelation she had in the boat captain's house as she was leaving.

@_@ So... much....

[/spoiler]

Game 4
[spoiler]There's no proof Ange died. That's one of the big mysteries of Game 4. Did she die? If so, who killed her? I like the idea that her and Amakusa get the fuck out. The Ending Scroll isn't perfectly accurate just like in Higurashi.

As for the order of deaths, good fucking luck.[/spoiler]

Game 4
[spoiler]Ending scroll isn't accurate? Do you have proof of this because I've been considering it to be the most accurate thing and the thing that I try to set my notes by.

I, too, want to believe that Ange got out of there, with all my heart. ^_^ And seriously I really do want to pair those two. If I remember correctly one of the lines in the game suggested that he propositioned her at one time (I can't remember the exact line, tho, so I might be making more of the line in my head since I went with the idea of it XD )

Seriously, I want to believe that Amakusa would be a professional and follow her despite her command to stay behind, and that as she's laying there getting stomped, she sees him and that he's the one doing all the killing. If not, if she did get shot, I want to believe then at the very least that Amakusa still fucked Sumadera up >_<

Also, for Maria and the resurrection of the doll: the fact that she has Mammon and Sakuratarou following her constantly and she has the Mammon stake, I wonder... did Ange sew and create her "own" Sakuratarou. Just a useless theory that doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things, but just an idea.

I keep trying to pound my head to come up with some kind of theory about what Ange saw or realized when she was in the boat captain's house. Did she see something or was it just an epiphany of some kind. >_< Still, it gave her a very big purpose for going there and wanting to come back alive.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]The "revived" Sakutarou is actually a pretty big deal. I forget, is the scene you're talking about in the house the one where Ange is looking at the piles of junk? If so ... what she sees is the "revived" Sakutarou. Ironically, the anime does this a bit better as you can see Sakutarou in the scene.

As for the Ending Scrolls, the proof comes from Higurashi mainly and later games, though it's hinted enough in the first four games; hell, it's pretty much a staple of the When They Cry series in general. Higurashi is the main source for early iron-clad proof as nearly every ending scroll in Higurashi was wrong (Takano's status, for instance). They're the status of the games as the game world depicts, much like misleading TIPS (i.e., people listed as dead that may not be for Umineko purposes). In short, faking your death can have you listed as dead in the Ending Scroll; Amakusa reporting to Ookonogi that Ange is dead is sufficient to be listed as dead in the Ending Scroll.

As for Amakusa, do remember that his purpose in Game 4 with Ange is to kill her for Ookonogi (and, well, to kill Kasumi too). I'd like to think he doesn't and runs off with Ange instead but he's supposed to be the one to kill her (or leave her to her death). He's not a bodyguard--he's an assassin.[/spoiler]

Hm.
[spoiler]The game flat out states that Sakutarou was remade. It's why he was able to be revived in magic scenes. His vessel was restored so he could be brought back. As for the anime, it's a pretty small detail shown (seriously, you'd need to pause at the right time to get a glimpse of what may be him) so it's an odd thing to have put in and not be canon.

And, as said, the game drops enough hints that it's Sakutarou anyway.

Also, in regards to Amakusa, the death of all involved parties makes Ookonogi rich, not the Sumadera's. There's quite a few conversations between the two (notably the last one, if I recall, between Ookonogi and Amakusa) that talk about Amakusa killing Ange (the last one being the "Or just wait and Kasumi will do it for you if you can't" talk). He is a hitman. That's not some funny reading of the material. That's what the game says he is many times. He's there to kill Ange.

In fact, they even talk about Ange dying being the best case scenario for them. Her living is completely detrimental to their plans. Ookonogi is a pretty slimy bastard and, for any "MASTERMIND NOT ON THE ISLAND!" theories, he's #1 fan favorite pick for it. Ange dying, in Game 4, makes him rich.

As for Amakusa disobeying his orders for the sake of Ange, it's possible. I was just pointing out that you saying he's too much of a professional to leave her is odd since him being a professional would mean him killing her. I very much think he <3's Ange too much to kill her himself or let her die otherwise.[/spoiler]

sometimes I feel, Scy, we are reading two different scripts. *sigh* goes back to re-read. I SWEAR that's not what I read or understood.

honestly
[spoiler]explain how that works to me? Okonogi was just some client hired by Hideyoshi and Eva. The Sumadare's are in Ange's family and line and I remember the bitch mentioning something about holding the only stocks.

EVEN IF Kasumi and Ange were killed - then doesn't the money just go to the next person in the Suma-line? It would never reach some hired-in-help-accountant(or whatever he was). The only way he could profit was to hope that Ange would live and keep him around. He even tells her that he thinks she's going to be big some day.

I don't know much about how inheritance and stocks and shit work but, something is not adding up in this theory even if I COULD find the convo you are refering to between Okonogi and Amakusa (which I can't... I've looked).[/spoiler]

Episode 4 is the one I'm the least familiar with. So of course it's so confusing.

[spoiler]I wonder, for the red that says that Kanon was the ninth victim, does that mean he was the ninth to die that day, during the span of the game board, or can that include Kinzo and/or Shannon (if Shkanon is true) if they're dead? I'm guessing not, but...

Anyway, I find it strange that this game is the only one in which most of the murders are shown to occur within the first day. In the previous games, the first twilight victims were found during the morning of the second day. What's different about this one?

I've said this before, but I wonder if everything didn't go as planned for the culprit(s). In other words, someone else was killing people. I'm guessing Krauss. I guess he could have been signing documents in Kinzo's name, qualifying him somehow to fit in the red truth. Then I suppose he was overwhelmed by everything and the impending consequences, shot his siblings (and Hideyoshi), accidentally shot his wife, and shot Genji when he tried to stop him...

I need to think through this further.[/spoiler]

You know, for me... not having ANY recollection of this scene that you are talking about Scy... :[ IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER GAME AND HAVE ME SEARCHING THIS GAME WONDERING WHY THE FUCK I CANNOT REMEMBER A CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE TWO I'M GOING TO SERIOUSLY KICK YOUR ASS!!

[spoiler]The scenes I remember with Amakusa
-The initial save scene
-Amakusa asleep on the couch while she does magic
-On the first boat talking about their philosophy and being content with themselves
-The boat captain's house
-Being left behind on the boat

The scenes I remember with Okonogi:
- one: when he's talking to Ange, she leaves, talks to secretary then has a boring conversation with Kasumi when she storms in and then again when the loss of Ange and Amakusa is reported.[/spoiler]

:[ WHERE IS THIS FUCKING SCENE?!! AND WHY WOULD I NOT REMEMBER SOMETHING THAT BIG!?

YOU DO REALIZE I'M ONLY TALKING ABOUT EPISODE 4 AND THAT I'VE ASKED TO NOT HAVE THE GAMES 5 AND 6 MENTIONED >_<

sorry for max rage but... seriously... x_x I read ALL THE TIME and I'm a DAMN good reader and my memory is NOT that bad... is it.... T-T This is seriously frustrating....

Maybe you're pregnant.

Also, for Ep 7...
[spoiler]I wonder if there's going to be a new protagonist, since just about everyone has solved the game at this point, except for maybe Featherine (or she was trolling Ange). Bern may not know everything, but she knows enough to be game master, at least.

...Does this mean Ange's coming back?[/spoiler]