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Theory revision time!

[spoiler]
There are two murder plots going on at the same time: one planned by Kyrie, and one planned by Jessitrice.

Sometime after marrying Rudolf (let's say after the 1985 family conference), Kyrie learns that Battler is actually her son. She decides to investigate Asumu's baby further, and learns that the baby ended up as a servant to the Ushiromiyas, rejected by Rudolf due to a physical defect. The baby, of course, is Kanon.

Kanon's birth name is Battler. However, as he was raised in an orphanage, probably without any identification, he was given the name Yoshiya. During his time as a servant (and perhaps in the Fukuin House), Kinzo took a liking to him, and legally changed his name to Kinzo, possibly without informing him.

Kyrie arranges for a secret meeting with Kanon, and informs him of his origins. She explains to him that she is planning on murdering the entire Ushiromiya family, and she convinces him to be her accomplice.

Kyrie's motive for murder is essentially revenge against Battler. She sees him as the symbol of everything her life could have been, and wants him to feel pain as a result. She decides that the apparent murder of eighteen people is appropriate, with Battler being saved for last.

However, she is unaware that another person is planning on murdering people, that person being Jessica, or, to be more specific, the Beatrice inside Jessica, the "18th human on Rokkenjima.

Six years earlier, Jessica overheard Battler describing his ideal girl. At the time, she was feeling insecure, thinking that nobody would ever love her. These thoughts, possibly combined with the pressure of being the daughter of Kinzo's successor (and probably being forced to marry someday), lead to the creation of another personality, one that Jessica herself is unaware of.

Of course, this is the last family conference Battler attends for six years. This causes Jessica's hidden personality to continue to exist and slowly grow. This personality takes on a name well known on Rokkenjima: Beatrice.

When the portrait of the witch is set up, along with the epitaph, the Beatrice inside Jessica works on solving the epitaph, feeling inadequate unless she does so. She can only consciously think while Jessica is unconscious, and she manages to solve the epitaph using this time given to her.

When Jessica (and by extension, Beatrice) learns that Battler is returning for the 1986 family conference, Beatrice decides to carry out the murders of the epitaph, believing that she and Battler will be together at last. However, she also feels a certain anger toward Battler, as her entire existence for the past six years has been filled with a constant anticipation of his return. In short, Battler created her, her existence has been painful, and she desires revenge along with love.

After hearing about the imminent typhon, Beatrice sets up a bomb on the island that will kill everyone on the island not in the "Golden Land." This is because she is still Beatrice, and thinks fondly of anyone who can solve the riddle devoted to her. She also sincerely doesn't want to kill anyone, and won't if everyone solves the epitaph (and probably shares the gold).

Neither Kyrie nor Jessitrice are aware of the other. Beatrice isn't fully aware of the fact that her body isn't exactly hers, so she can only, under normal circumstances, carry out the first twilight, while Jessica is sleeping. There are exceptions to this, of course, but this is often where Kyrie and Jessitrice come into conflict with each other.
[/spoiler]

I'll focus on the individual games later.

Game 7
[spoiler]
Alternatively, Game 8 could just explain the Kyrie culprit theory further, since the Tea Party game murders didn't look like they were planned out. Something tells me Kyrie wasn't planning on everyone solving the epitaph. And there's the whole accidental Krauss/Natsuhi deaths going on.

Watch as Asumu's the culprit in Game 8.

Speaking of which, who's the new GM?
[/spoiler]

Shkannon
[spoiler]
What I don't understand is how anyone, after reading only the question arcs, could come to the conclusion that Kanon and Shannon are different personalities of a person who, as a baby, was given to Natsuhi to raise, only she didn't.

Besides, didn't Ryukishi himself state that the answers in this game would be more "1+1" instead of simply saying "2?" It makes no sense for him to suddenly come out and reveal the origins of Beatrice without this being the final game.
[/spoiler]

Game 7
[spoiler]See, the "Kyrie culprit" part of Game 7 is a little misleading. It's really "GRATS HERE'S THE GOLD. ALSO, HERE'S A BUNCH OF WEAPONS. DON'T DO BAD THINGS WITH THEM!" and then, well, they do bad things with them.

There's no planning or anything. It's really just a massacre at the gold. Kyrie and Rudolph just do the bulk of the killing after the first two are killed. It's more of "they started shooting and we decided to kill everyone else because I'm a terrible person" than a "execute the kill the Ushiromiya Family Plan!!" And then, well, Eva kills them both because she's awesome and has to survive for this reality.

It feels way more like trolling Ange (and us) than a solution, really, since it's all her parents killing everyone because they can and Eva surviving. It's an explanation for Ange's reality (Eva as sole survivor).

This entire solution Bern presents in the Tea Party HAS to be incorrect. Why? If you remove Beatrice from this game, it plays out the same. It's pretty much "Kyrie and Rudolph kill some bitches because they're greedy fucks." That's all that happens. Shkannon reveal is half of the main board and it's irrelevant in Bern's solution. EVERYTHING we've learned in Umineko is irrelevant in Bern's solution. It's just people gathering and getting gunned down.

Worth mentioning that Battler is neither confirmed dead or alive in this Tea Party. Rudolph is supposed to find him so they can all live together (or kill him if he refuses) but it's never said what happens to him. Cue Amakusa-Battler theories.

Remember, the Tea Party is Bern's solution. The main Game Board is Phoenix Wright's investigation. It doesn't make it more trustworthy, I suppose, but it is slightly different. It's a bit of a hard sell, though, with the awesome submarine, Italian Gold, RSI involvement, YaShKannontrice all being mass revealed.

As for Game 8, the GM is Battler; the game ends with him in the chapel announcing that he will reveal the true story.[/spoiler]

Shkannon
[spoiler]The theory first came up during the Question Arcs though. The two are never seen together and are virtually identical (they use the same base sprite, if I recall) and their actions are rather confusing. Them being the same person allows for the greatest of mobility. It's a harder sell during the question arcs alone, yes, but it's still a possibility.

Game 6 and 7 just sort of "hey dumbass, this is it." Though, it's still possibly wrong. Much of Game 7 is waaaay too melodramatic and odd, really. Even for the penultimate game, it's way in your face on answering this (and it spends SO MUCH TIME answering this) that it just feels odd. Then again, Higurashi was pretty in your face too in the penultimate game so ... whatever.[/spoiler]

And, your theory:
[spoiler]If we take Game 7's Main Board as truth, the entire theory is impossible. Kanon is another personality of Yasu/Shannon/Beatrice/TheEntireIsland and this Beatrice isn't a killer (or just the culprit? not sure on the wording). In fact, this other Battler is never mentioned at all in this game so it's either a red herring or Game 7's GM just doesn't like that theory. Not that Kinzo banging his daughter to create Yasu is a better one, mind you.

Basically, your theory seems to take Game 7 and swap in Jessica over YaShKanontrice for the Beatrice role.[/spoiler]

Game 7
[spoiler]
Well, everyone hates Ange, so of course she's being trolled.

But the first game was a kakera that was practically impossible. Bern's solution could be the same way. I guess.

Still, it is interesting enough that in Bern's solution, everyone finds the gold. So nobody's actions are what they normally are. Maybe.

There's one thing that's been bugging me ever since Game 5, though. Bern claims she can only see Natsuhi sitting alone, without Beatrice. If you stretch that to mean she doesn't see fantasy scenes, period, it means that she's known the howdunnit and whodunnit the entire time. I always just assumed "without love, it cannot be seen" referred to the whydunnit.


Shkannon
[spoiler]
I was more pointing out how impossible it was to guess the Yasu part of the theory than anything else. I know how much sense Shkannon itself makes.
[/spoiler]

My theory
[spoiler]
I wonder, would Bern object to Jessitrice seducing Kanon in Game 1 in order to kill everyone?
[/spoiler]

Game 7
[spoiler]
I probably should've been more specific. By first game I meant Leon's kakera. Yeah.

Also, I always felt as if Erika was being trolled by Bern. I mean, Bern pretty much says that she doesn't particularly like her. She seemed more like entertainment to me.
[/spoiler]

Shkannon
[spoiler]
Yes, Yasu doesn't really matter. But he does figure into Shkannon's past, and if Umineko was solvable from Game 4, how was anyone supposed to think of that?
[/spoiler]

My theory
[spoiler]
It's lust, not love.
[/spoiler]

Shkannon
[spoiler]I think you're confusing "solving Umineko" and "knowing everything about Umineko."

Solving Umineko merely means knowing who is killing everyone (and who Beatrice is, I suppose). Knowing about Yasu doesn't help you solve Umineko. Knowing Shkannon, however, does. Yasu is irrelevant to the Umineko solution as a whole. At least, as how Yasu has been presented seems irrelevant to the Umineko solution.

Yes, you cannot have known about Yasu from Games 1-4. But Umineko is solvable without knowing Yasu as all you need is Shkannontrice.

...assuming Shkannontrice is true, anyway.[/spoiler]

Game 7
[spoiler]That's probably just me being a perfectionist. Though if Shkannontrice is true, there should be some clues indicating why this one person has three personalities.

Also, as for the tea party, I agree that the solution shown does nothing to confirm any culprit theory. There's probably just as good a chance that Rosa could've shot everyone. That kakera was probably just the best one to troll Ange with.

However, we know that pieces can't act out of character. So, the tea party at least proves that Battler's parents are capable of murder. They don't necessarily have to be the culprits, but they definitely shouldn't be ruled out as suspects.

And now for a quick explanation of the tea party using my handy dandy (and totally denied by this game) theory!

Everyone starts shooting. Kyrie's rather confused by these events, but decides to just go with it and shoots everyone that isn't Rudolf. She decides that Rudolf can help with the slaughter of everyone else on the island, and they get to it! Unfortunately, in the rush of things, she forgets to check if everyone they shot was dead, since it turns out Eva wasn't. She was planning on killing Rudolf once he gets Battler, but Eva happened. The end, enjoy your life, Ange.
[/spoiler]

Game 7
[spoiler]There's no confusion, really. Beatrice tells them she'll kill them all if they don't solve the epitaph so they're already wary. Plus, they're told (and shown) that a bomb is going to kill them all.

The Tea Party is just bizarre. It's pretty much "solve the epitaph or die, reach the gold and hey look weapons, btw there's a bomb, accidental discharge, lolfrenzy." That's it. Rudolph and Kyrie just take it beyond the room and kill the children once they're left "alone."

The only "LET'S KILL PEOPLE" bit is when they decide to kill the children. The massive free-for-all seems more of a "put them down before they kill us." Eva (accidentally) shoots Natsuhi, Hideyoshi shoots Krauss. Kyrie shoots Hideyoshi, Rosa, and then Eva (just wounds but knocks her unconscious). Rudolph really does nothing here. There's four guns in this scene (which seems weird anyway) and I don't think Rudolph has one to begin with.

Also, the only people killed outside of here are the children. There's no mention of gunning down Gohda, Kumasawa, Genji, etc. Shkannon is presumably already dead as Beatrice is killed with the adults. At least, that's my understanding; I haven't made it to the Tea Party myself yet.

As for "pieces can't do things they're not capable of doing" ... well ... Higurashi has that too. K1 murders people in a few arcs, Shion is utterly sadistic. They're not their true character, though; it's just a "could be" situation. So, yes, Kyrie could very much be capable of mass murder and despises Ange completely ... but it's also out of character of her normally (doting, plans her daughter's presents in advance). I'm not saying she's not a suspect but I'm saying that just because she could doesn't mean she did.

As for Shkannontrice, Shannon is already an odd existence; servants don't remain at Rokkenjima as long as she has. Her and Kanon are the few cases of off-screen corpses. There's hints of Fukuin teaching of being different people. There's talk of the abuse they suffer which is a typical cause for multiple personalities. There's lots of small hints here and there.

If you deny Shkannontrice as possible, any multiple personality situation is equally unlikely I would imagine.

Regardless, I think there's sufficient proof of Shkannon / multiple personalities in the Question Arcs. While we're at it, Will solves some of the basic mysteries of the games (Game 1, 2nd Twilight: "There was no locked room." and Game 2, Chapel: "The door was never locked."). I rushed through this bit so I'll get back and translate all his solutions. No idea when I'll get to this, though; I move soon so ...[/spoiler]

Game 7
[spoiler]Shkannontrice is definitely possible. If it turns out to be the solution, I'll be fine, since it's really not too much of an asspull or anything like that. I simply prefer other theories. Though I do believe that Kanon can pass off as a girl.

There are some "types" of Shkannon I like better than others. Shannon killing Kanon shortly before the game begins seems more believable than both of them being the same people. But I guess that's apparently denied by Game 7.

Well, regardless of what happened during the tea party, I don't believe it disproves or proves a Kyrie culprit theory.

As for Will's solutions (at least the ones you posted), people have long since come up with those (I got the 2nd twilight one from you, for instance), but it's nice to actually get some confirmation (honestly, there's no reason to deny his conclusions for the howdunnit).

But, just out of curiosity, how much of Game 7 do you believe to be true?
[/spoiler]

Game 7
[spoiler]Well, as far as Shkannontrice is concerned ... Kanon is the only "false" personality. Shannon existed as a servant before by the sound of things. I think Yasu kept the Shannon personality around after the real Shannon left. I think Beatrice is supposed to be the original Yasu? I'm not really sure, honestly. It's kind of a clusterfuck.

Anyway, there seems to be a Shannon before Yasu-Shannon. At least, that's what I seem to be reading. Maybe I'm just missing something about Shannon before Yasu arrived (popular with the maids, roommate to Yasu).

I didn't mean for the explanation on the Tea Party to be a confirm or denial of anything if it ever came out the way; you're very much as right as I am (or anyone else) on this subject. It's just that the Tea Party is more of "it's a gigantic clusterfuck that makes no sense and goes against everything we've learned in Umineko."

As for how much of Game 7 I believe ... I dunno. The Tea Party I deny pretty strongly but I find much of Will's investigation to be truthful. But, at the same time, some of it is just waaaay too in your face and melodramatic ("YOU SOLVED THE EPITAPH SHANNON I RECOGNIZE YOU AS THE NEXT HEIR MY CHILD ... NOW I WILL DIE BYE!" is pretty much how the inheritance goes down, for instance) so I don't know what to do with it.

Edit: While I mention the epitaph, I feel like noting what Game 7 says the origin of it is. It is created, yes, as a means to pass down the inheritance. However, Kinzo wants it to be solved by his child, Yasu/Shannon/Beatrice-3; if someone beats her to it, so be it. That is the hand that fate dealt him. "The greater the risk, the greater the reward." Her solving the Epitaph is Kinzo's desired goal and Game 7 shows us that she does in fact solve it before the family does so; she is the new "Kinzo." This is in the past so I believe it ... even if it plays out like a soap opera ("NOW I DIE!").

Game 7 answers a lot, easily the most of the answer arcs. However, the presentation is like Game 1: It's all in the White. So ... we're "programmed" to disbelieve it all but it can't all be false. The oddities that arise is in HOW Will gets the information; he pretty much "bullies" Rosa into confirming the year she kills Beatrice-2 (1967) and some of Rosa's testimony doesn't fit (she mentions going to the lion statue behind the chapel ... when it's not there).

So, in short ... I don't believe everything but I'm not sure yet what to believe and what to throw out. Almost all the revelations in this Game are from Will's interviews with the cast so quite a bit is testimony from them so there's mistakes to be had.[/spoiler]

Hm...

Game 7
[spoiler]
If Yasu=Leon, and Shannon=Kanon=Yasu, how can Leon not be Kanon?

I think I'm missing something.
[/spoiler]

......... ^_^;; I'm sure you guys couldn't care less, I'm so awful at theories and I'm so far behind you but, I'm starting to really get into Ep 5 of Umineko. o_O Dammit, will it just get to the conference already.

[spoiler]Battler is such an idiot. I wish he would decide whether he wants to hate Beatrice or not. *sigh* ..... Though there's still a part of me that enjoys the love-hate relationship of the two. I'm not expecting a whole lot of answers from this particular game, but I'm still looking very much forward to it.[/spoiler]

Playing some Umineko ep 5. They are trying to solve the epitaph.

[spoiler]... 10 days of travel... could it be a boat? ship? vessel? <--- random theory. what the fuck am I doing trying to theorize about this... I expect much laughter from Scy[/spoiler]

My two favorite visual novels:


You are the most powerful being in the universe. For three minutes.


I'm honestly not sure how to describe this one. It has everyone from demons to Gordan Freeman. Genuflect or die...or die anyway. Definitely for 18+.

Best part? They're free. Legally.

EDIT: These may have been mentioned before since All Together was brought up specifically in the opening thread.