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The clone is AI controlled and it's half your HP/TP to create it (that is, the Shinobi at 120/100 becomes two each with 60/50). The shots make it look like your HP/TP isn't capped at that reduced amount since it still shows as half the bar but ... who knows.

Edit: The description for the attack states the clone is "able to operate by itself" which I figured to mean AI controlled. It could mean that if the Shinobi dies then the clone is left ... which makes it a bit more useful (i.e., keeps it at 200% Damage effectively) but still pretty gimmicky.

I figured Beastking's would have a similar 6th slot option so I didn't think much about "MUST GET 6 SLOTS" for Shinobi. Also figured it to be that battle only further making it a gimmick. Who knows, I suppose.

As for the support, the Shinobi seems to have a few Elemental attacks and Binds so ... yeah. Pretty much shaping up to be a faster Gunner skillset (Elemental attacks + Binds) so far.

[spoiler]Plus, makes it seem more likely that the "SUPPORT" part of the distribution probably just meant Luck; the other 4 correspond to stats fairly easily.[/spoiler]

Updates! A bit late since I was out of town yesterday, my bad? This forum is so lonely and the forums are slow overall anyway, I guess no one will notice. >_>

http://etrian.nyleveia.com/2010/01/13/a ... -round-10/
http://etrian.nyleveia.com/2010/01/12/a ... a-round-9/

HOLY SHIT FOUR CD'S - Although I assume that 2 of them are just the DS sound version, but still.

Wtf is with that girl in the blue cloak? Is she a Monk? Is that a mime/clown teardrop? The other Atlus mascot? And how the hell is she wearing those earmuffs both on and under her hair at the same time!?

And to save some time so Scy can rip into it...
LEVEL 1 // STR - TEC - VIT - AGI - LUC - ATK - DEF - HP - TP
Princess: 7 - 6 - 7 - 6 - 6 - 60 - 36 - 47 - 21
Shinobi: 7　 - 9　 - 4 - 10　 - 8 - 23 - 11 - 28 - 24
Ballista: 11　- 3　 - 3　 - 4　 - 8 - 25 - 10 - 37 - 18
Monk: 8 - 10　 - 6　 - 7　 - 6 - 24 - 13 - 34 - 32
Farmer: 3　 - 3　 - 5　 - 6 - 12 - 21 - 12 - 36 - 15
Phalanx: 8 - 6 - 11 - 3 - 6 - 24 - 19 - 50 - 24

N.B.: Princess has extra items equipped.

...why does the Phalanx have higher base attack than defense? First they describe it as offense+defense, then in ratings they just gave (the 1-5 thing) on the blog it had low physical strength but colossal defense, and now this.

They really should just have given the base values for STR-TEC-VIT-AGI-LUC... had they used this we could compare to the existing 12 classes AND be clear on what's what. And I don't think the categories they did use necessarily match up, Scy.

Edit: URGH STUPID FORUM BOARD. I had all the numbers spaced to be neatly under the columns, but of course, when posted the extra spaces are ignored. Hit quote and it should show the spacing.

Because DEF hits scaling faster and VIT has less of an impact on DEF than STR on ATK. Also, starting Weapon ATK vs starting Armor DEF (+15 ATK/+13 ATK [Dagger/Wand] and +7 DEF in EO2, for example). I will note they may have changed the ATK/DEF formula though (Farmer and Phalanx have the same equip yet do not differ by their STR/VIT differences for example).

That and these are base stats which say a lot less than, say, Level 5, 10, 30, etc. stats. To compare, EO2 base stats:

Format is STR - TEC - VIT - AGI - LUC - HP - TP, baseATK/baseDEF is ignored since it's merely STR+15/STR+13 and VIT+7. I'll do Level 1 followed by Level 70 stats.

ST - TE - VI - AG - LU - HP - TP
Landsknecht
06 - 05 - 06 - 05 - 05 - 045 - 020
58 - 32 - 58 - 51 - 35 - 515 - 117

Survivalist
05 - 05 - 04 - 08 - 05 - 040 - 024
42 - 32 - 45 - 69 - 46 - 483 - 149

Protector
05 - 05 - 08 - 04 - 05 - 048 - 022
48 - 30 - 75 - 29 - 52 - 537 - 158

Dark Hunter
07 - 05 - 05 - 05 - 05 - 042 - 026
60 - 36 - 51 - 53 - 33 - 503 - 151

Medic
06 - 07 - 04 - 05 - 05 - 034 - 031
32 - 79 - 34 - 41 - 48 - 416 - 183

Alchemist
03 - 08 - 03 - 06 - 07 - 032 - 034
30 - 80 - 29 - 44 - 51 - 369 - 214

Troubadour
04 - 06 - 04 - 05 - 08 - 041 - 028
40 - 55 - 45 - 59 - 35 - 414 - 166

Ronin
08 - 04 - 04 - 05 - 06 - 039 - 019
72 - 36 - 39 - 57 - 30 - 483 - 116

Hexer
03 - 08 - 04 - 06 - 06 - 033 - 031
20 - 69 - 33 - 51 - 61 - 372 - 183

Gunner
06 - 06 - 03 - 05 - 07 - 035 - 029
59 - 60 - 31 - 17 - 67 - 400 - 161

War Magus
05 - 07 - 04 - 04 - 07 - 042 - 024
50 - 53 - 63 - 36 - 31 - 426 - 176

Beast
08 - 05 - 08 - 05 - 05 - 055 - 015
61 - 18 - 70 - 38 - 51 - 545 - 153

[spoiler]OH GOD FORMATTING[/spoiler]

Glancing over it all:
STR - Beast/Ronin, Dark Hunter ... but you can't tell me based off of that you'll know Medic has the third worst STR growth despite their 6 STR stat or that Survivalists won't be much better.

TEC - Alchemist, WM/Hexer/Medic ... which is about right so not much to say here. Well, besides that Beast TEC hits 18 at level 70 but that's hard to surmise from their starting 5 TEC. Also, there's a huge discrepency between Alchemist/Medic, Hexer, and WM (80/79 ... 69, 63) despite the starting stat similarity.

VIT - Beast/Protector, Landsknecht ... but WM has a higher VIT than Landsknecht but their starting 4 doesn't show it.

AGI - Survivalist, Alchemist/Hexer ... but Troubadour and Ronin have the second and third highest AGI scores despite having the same starting AGI as a Gunner (who has the lowest at 17 by 70).

LUC - Troubadour, Gunner/War Magus and then a lot of ties. Hexer and Protector, however, have a higher LUC than a War Magus (Gunner does have the highest, over twice that of a WM despite the same starting) and Troubadour isn't even in the running (35 LUC at 70 despite their starting 8).

So ... yeah. Level 1 stats don't tell much. Even more so since the game merely uses a +Stat on Level up as opposed to using the Base Stat in the leveling at all (i.e., higher base = higher change per level). A higher base just means a higher starting point but if the growth rate isn't matching then that higher base means nothing. In addition, some classes have high stats that they never really use (Hexer TEC, Gunner TEC, Protector TEC, wow a lot of TEC) in their normal use.

[spoiler]Yes, yes, I know TEC is used in the TEC Chance-to-be-hit (defensively AND offensively) but still. AGI works on the STR based ones and there's more of those than TEC based.[/spoiler]

So, with that, I view the distribution charts as a growth indicator rather than base stats. That out of the way:

Princess is fairly balanced and taking the chart into consideration, she probably won't do much more than progress her LUC/VIT stats. Probably end up with WM-like stats (mediocre-to-above average STR and TEC, below average SPD with high VIT/LUC).

Shinobi ... is fairly obvious. High SPD, high LUC, and then mediocre STR/TEC with negligible VIT.

Ballista is an oddity; the chart has them with a high TEC yet their low starting makes me wonder if it'll be like the WM VIT (low base, high growth). Still, the ridiculous ATK there with above-average LUC.

Monk - Their chart has their SPD and Support higher than the rest so probably expect to see high AGI/LUC. Though, with them being a Healing role, I'd still expect a good TEC growth but no offensive use of their TEC (or limited offensive use of their TEC ... like, one skill). Honestly, I DUNNO. It's them that makes me doubt that Support has any link what-so-ever to the LUC stat and that the charts are more role indication.

Farmer - wtfisthisshit

Phalanx - The odd thing here is their TEC growth appears higher than STR ... which is a little "wut?" in my mind. Then again, EO2 Prtoector. Anyway, VIT growth is expected along with LUC; higher TEC than STR is eventually expected. So, really, they're pretty close to EO2 Protector.

Ultimately, it's just a lot of speculation and perspective and how you want to read into those charts + base stats. I just really doubt we can use the base stats and go "Oh, this class will have the best X, really good Y, and low Z" with any certainty. Oh well, won't stop the comparing of classes though.

[spoiler]Except for some obvious standouts (10 AGI Shinobi, 10 TEC Monk, 11 STR [s]Coffeeguy[/s]Ballista, 11 VIT Pahalnx) that is. Even then, it's possible for them to be misleading (8 LUC Troubadour -> 35 LUC at 70; the lowest LUC at 70 is Ronin's 30, for the record). Though, those are primary stats and LUC isn't as useful so ... yeah. Better example would be Gunner's base 5 AGI compared to Ronin and Troubadour yet ending with roughly one-third their level 70 AGI (17 vs 57, 59)[/spoiler]

[spoiler]This ended up being so much longer than I originally expected haha.[/spoiler]

ohnos math
[spoiler]STR and TEC are used in the Damage Formula as follows:
(20 + STR) * (STR + [wATK / 6]) * (20 + [wATK / 3])
(20 + TEC) * (TEC + [basePWR / 2]) * (20 + basePWR)

AGI (for STR based attacks) and TEC (for TEC based attacks) are used in the Accuracy Forumla as follows:
BaseAccuracy * (1 + (.01 * AttackerAGI) + (.005 * AttackerLUC)) = ModifiedAccuracy
ModifiedAccuracy / (1 + (.01 * DefenderAGI) + (.005 * DefenderLUC)) = ActualAccuracy
ActualAccuracy * Buffs/Debuffs = FinalAccuracy
Cap FinalAccuracy between 20% and 100% (i.e., if 5%, raise to 20%; if 200%, drop to 100%). This is the Accuracy actual used to determine if an attack lands.
Lastly, multiply this by 80% if Head is bound and 25% if Blind; this value can go below the 20% Cap.
Additionally, Shiraha check occurs after this. If the attack misses, Shiraha never comes into play; if the attack successfully lands, then Shiraha will trigger.

As for how TEC works in the Defense function (for Spell Damage) ... I have no fucking idea, sorry.

So, an Accuracy example (can't really do a Damage one without the Mitigation part of the formula):
Enemy A Attacking with 50 AGI, 50 LUC, and an attack with 140% BaseAccuracy. Head is Bound AND Blinded.
Defender B Defending with 75 AGI, 25 LUC, and with 76% Avoidance (Clarity) and Maxed Shiraha (30%).

140% * (1 + .01 * 50 + .005 * 50) = 140% * (1 + .5 + .25) = 140% * (1.75) = 245%

245% / (1 + .01 * 75 + .005 * 25) = 245% / (1 + .75 + .125) = 245% / (1.875) = 130.67%

130.67% * .76 = 99.31%

20% < 99.31% < 100%, no change.

99.31% * .8 = 79.45%

79.45% * .25 = 19.86%

The attack has a 19.86% chance to land; assuming this goes through, it then has a 30% Chance to deal no damage due to Shiraha. Essentially, this means there is a 13.9% Chance to be hit (19.86% * .7).

Without Head Bind and Blind, the attack has a 99.31% Chance to Land despite the fact the Ronin in question has a 76% Chance to Dodge from Clarity. With Shiraha, that becomes a 69.52% Chance to be hit.

Credit to Terence for clarifying some points (notably that it's 1%, .5% for AGI/TEC, LUC as opposed to 1%, .25% that I thought) as well as Shiraha ordering in the equation (always assumed it was a prior check, not after the hit "lands"). I used Ronin since they have the most Avoidance options so I'd get every factor in there.

Also, I just realized that it's supposed to be 130.66% there since the game always rounds down. Oops. It's negligible but I'm too lazy to go and fix it right now.[/spoiler]

Honestly, I expect nothing big from the new classes. In the end, they'll fulfill the same roles that EO1/EO2 had set-up so there's nothing huge in the dynamic. We just accomplish what we want with new letters than before.

I'm still wtfisthisshit to Farmer though.

I do sort of want a farmer NPC.

A red-necky sort, the kind that just wears a straw hat and worn-out overalls.