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...And yet I click on the spoiler boxes anyway. I confuse myself sometimes.

You know, at first I thought the farmer was nifty but wouldn't have a place in my party. Now after hearing all his stuff, I think I need to remake my party to include one. Damn it.

Hmmm... Damn it, I like these classes too much to just pick five people. Beast king, prince, shinobi, phalanx, balista, monk, pirate. Why do you all have to be so cool?

Casters, somehow, are less terrible this time. Probably due to the spell damage formula having a 4*TEC multiplier (that is, effectively giving them a 396 ATK Weapon for calculation purposes). OF course, they still screw things up a bit by having lower multipliers.

[spoiler]That and the 396 "wATK" is used in a "wATK - dDEF" situation to see if damage is dealt (and how much as a base, I believe). Both STR and TEC use the same stat->damage formula so the multipliers are the big thing. Spells get by high DEF a lot easier but do considerably less damage against a low DEF target compared to a STR based character due to the multiplier differences. Yay.[/spoiler]

To be honest, I'm not sure what anyone said that made Farmer sound like an awesome main party choice. Sleep isn't unique to the Farmer, the other classes have the Binds, and the Gathering options are best served in a Gathering-based party, not a primary. Don't forget subclassing can net you some of these classes as well so you technically have more slots to work with in one party.

Edit: For the record, Lullaby is 15% at Level 1, not 30% and maxes at 60%.

It's not the farmer itself, but the high luck and utility. The status effects you use - especially stone curse - hit enemies MUCH more often than other party members would. It's really noticable in higher stratums, when you enter the first time and really want some of the nasty buggers dead ASAP. You use a farmer as utility, pretty much.

[spoiler]Like the third pumpkin type, or the second mantis-whatever-it-is-supposed-to-be-thing that spawns eggs[/spoiler]

The status formula doesn't care how awesome your LUC _and_ TEC is. It only cares how it is compared to the target to a point. If your LUC and TEC combined are 22 points higher* than the target, you get the highest possible chance of landing the status effect. It doesn't care if you have 40 more LUC, you'll still be hardcapped at 200% the base chance.

*11 LUC or 22 TEC, actually, since the formula uses a 2*LUC modifier. Leaves us with: 2*(dLUC - aLUC) + (dTEC - aTEC) >= 22. Do keep in mind that it checks _both_ LUC and TEC.

I'm honestly just not a big fan of utility classes. Nothing brought forth seems like an awesome reason to use a main class Farmer to me, especially the "high LUC" since that is something that can be compensated for via equipment.

Edit: Just to restate, it's probably just playstyle preference. I'd rather do a Shinobi/Zodiac than a Farmer/Shinobi. Sure, I may not have the better LUC+TEC for the status effects but I do net the ability to cast cheaper spells to just end things and that is just more useful to me.

You can never win an argument concerning class usefulness against Scy.

Ever.

I mean, he's usually right, so it's not that bad, but still...

I'm just by the numbers. If the numbers say A is better, then A is better. None of this "it feels like" or "seems like" kind of thing. Yes, Farmers have a better LUC stat than the other classes but how relevant is it? Not very, to be honest. I'd rather have Beast King's +15% _after calculations_ modifier to status chances, for example. Especially since the high base chance isn't unique to Farmer's but is purely stat based and that is something you can accomplish through equipment manipulation.

End of the day though, only thing that matters is what you care about. I just like to provide the numbers for making informed decisions.

"Then pick ten people. Or 15 people. Very Happy

Of course, not many people are as insane as me to have a full 30 person guild. I mean, I managed to restrain myself to 15 in EOI and EOII, but all the combos here screws me over royally (is the kind of person that has to try ~everything~)."

Wow, I never went beyond 6 different people in both games.