EOII Rantage!

[Maxine MagicFox]

*blinks* No more Izuna.... LOL XD alright. I'm actually miffed. I reached floor 15 and gotten my butt handed to me by these annoying twins. GRRR! And to top it off the claw I had powered up broke on me so I was panicked about that.

^_^ Okay, I'll pick it up later today.

[Vapour Trail]

[Maxine MagicFox]

[Dan Smith]

Just some FOE complaints here.

[spoiler]The Deathman is a terrible F.O.E. It isn't too damaging, has lots of life, and has an instakill move. I've had so much trouble getting far cause of those damn guys.[/spoiler]

[Maxine MagicFox]

^ Please mark the content of your spoiler. Floor and so forth, as per my instructions in the Announcement-sticky in this board.

[TeslaNewton]

Just a quick floor 17 & 18 update
[spoiler]I opened up the Dominator whip! I was a pain trying to land the binds the damn Flygourds though. They liked to Dance before Dominate went off. I also took out a Voltking because I had Devere's, Newton's, and Bela's force built up, and, well, I didn't want to waste it. I was planning on taking out two of them, but, yeah, they are hella stronger that I thought. I took everything plus Climax to take out one! But we did it! Now I'm going to work on exploring floors 17 & 18, and maybe boss farm for en so I can buy the Dominator. Dunno about that yet. And what the hell are Flygourds weak too?! The only thing that worked effectively was a 1-2 turn combo of Megido & Climax.[/spoiler]

[scy]

Floor 17/18
[spoiler]Flygourds, like Trigourds before them, take 0% Damage from Fire, Cut, Stab, and Bash; only non-elemental (Revenge, Megido, WM Cuts), Ice, and Volt deal damage to them.

There's another variant later that is the same but without any Fire resist, I believe.[/spoiler]

Enemy Weaknesses; long list and there's boss name spoilers inside.
[spoiler]Volt x 1.5 means they take 150% Damage from Volt; 0% means they take 0% Damage (but not "0" damage. It'll be ~1-5).

Some bosses I don't have values for so there's a lot of ?'s for those, sorry.

1st Stratum:
Woodmai: Volt x 1.5
Hedgehog: Bash x 1.5
Mole: Fire x 1.5
Crawler: Volt x 1.5, Fire x 1.5
Venomfly: Volt x 1.5
Cactoid: Fire x 1.5
Ladybug: Volt x 1.5
Roller: Fire x 1.5, Physical x .75
Redhorn: Volt, Fire, and Ice x 1.5, Physical x .75
Kingmai: Volt x 1.5, Stab x .75
Evil Eye: None
Gel Cube: Volt, Fire, and Ice x2.0, Physical x .5
Hypnowl: Stab(?) x 1.5, Sleep Immune
Rafflesia: Fire x 1,5, Ice x 0, Physical x .75

Gashtor: Ice x 1.25
Furyhorn: Fire x 1.25, Volt x .75, Ice x .75
Furylord: Fire x 1.25, Volt x .75, Ice x .75
Stalker: Fire x1.25, Volt x 1.25, Stab x .75, Ice x .5
Raptor: Ice x 1.25
Slaveimp: Ice x 1.25
Raidmole: Fire x 1.25

Chimaera: Weak to Ice; resists Fire.

2nd Stratum:
Bigcap: Fire x 1.5
Frilizard: Ice x 1.5
Moa: Stab x 1.5
Mystue: Volt x 1.5, Physical x .75, Fire x 0, Ice x 0, Status immune.
Gigaboar: Fire x 1.5
Fangleaf: Fire x 1.5
Garauchi: Ice x 1.5
Firezard: Ice x 1.5
Tortmail: Ice x 1.5, Volt x 1.25, Fire x 1.25, Physical x .75
Actaeon: Fire x 1.5
Gryphon: Stab x 1.5
Red Gel: Volt x 2.0, Ice x 2.0, Physical x .25, Fire x 0
Addleowl: Stab x 1.5, Sleep Immune
Poseidon: Ice x 1.5, Volt x 1.25, Fire x 1.25, Physical x .75

Trigourd: Physical x 0, Fire x 0
Redwood: Fire x 1.25, Volt x .5, Ice x .5
Razeking: None
Fireking: Ice x 1.25, Physical x .75, Fire x 0
Sonicker: Stab x 1.25
Actaeon: Fire x 1.25

Hellion: Weak to ice; 0%'s Fire

3rd Stratum:
Snowsoul: Fire x 1.5
Fishman: Volt x 1.5, Ice x .5
Moriyana: Volt x 1.5, Stab x .75
Sleipnir: Fire x 1.5
Snowzard: Fire x 1.5, Ice x 0
Clawbug: Volt x 1.5, Physical x .25
Hugecrab: Volt x 1.5, Physical x .5 (just Stab?)
Wolf: Fire x 1.5, Ice x .75
Blue Gel: Volt x 2.0, Fire x 2.0, Physical x .25, Ice x 0
Redfish: Volt x 1.5, Ice x 0
Snowbird: Stab x 1.5
Nastue: Volt x 1.5, Physical x .75, Fire x 0, Ice x 0, Status Immune.
Warbull: Fire x 1.5

Darksoar: Stab x 1.25
Helldra: Volt, Fire, Ice x .5
Killclaw: Volt x 1.25, Physical x .5
Armoth: Fire x 1.25, Volt x 0, Ice x 0
Icefiend: none

Artelind: None
Wilhelm: None
Scylla: Weak to Volt; Resists Physical, Stab more-so.

4th Stratum:
Waspior: Volt x 1.5, Physical x .75
Raicho: Stab x 1.5, Volt x 0
Spider: Stab x 1.5
Kilpion: Volt x 1.5, Physical x .75
Rainbug Volt x 1.5, Ice x 0
Windsnip: Fire x 1.5
Diatrima: Stab x 1.5
Big Moth: Volt x 1.5
Glowbird: Stab x 1.5
Wrathbud: Fire x 1.5, Physical(?) x .75, Volt x 0, Instant Death Immune.
Raven: Stab x 1.5
Petaloid: Fire x 1.5, Sleep Immune
Venombug: Volt x 1.5, Poison Immune

Shelltor: Physical x .75
Voltking: Fire x 1.25, Stab x .75, Volt x 0
Flygourd: Physical x 0, Fire x 0
Cocatris: Stab x 1.5, ? x .75
Pollener: Fire x 1.25, Sleep Immune

Harpuia: Weak to Stab; Partial Resists others.

5th Stratum:
Gold Gel: Fire x 2.0, Ice x 2.0, Physical x .25, Volt x 0
Woodbat: Fire x 1.5
Mandrake: Fire x 1.5
Nitemare: Fire x 1.5 (odd?)
Nozuchi: Fire x 1.5, Ice x 0
Ebonwing: Ice x 1.5, Fire x 1.25
King Gel: Volt x 2.0, Fire x .5, Ice x .5, Physical x .25
Steelgun: Volt x 1.5, Fire x .75, Ice x .75, Physical x .5
Gigantue: Volt x 1.5, Physical x .75, Fire x 0, Ice x 0, Status immune.
Gemzard: Volt, Fire, and Ice x 0
Defender: Volt x 1.5, Everything else x .75
Armorman: Volt x 1.5, Everything else x .75
Tortiron: Ice x 1.5, Volt x 1.25, Fire x 1.25, Physical x .75

Deathman: Volt x 1.25, Everything else x .5
Evildra: Volt, Fire, Ice x .5
Beamedge: Volt x 1.25, Fire x .75, Physical x .5, Ice x 0
Guardian: Volt x 1.25, Everything else x .5
Stireye: None
Dinolich: Volt x .5, Fire x .5, Ice x 0

Colossus: Volt, Fire, and Ice x 1.25(?), Physical x .25 (.5?)
Overlord: None

6th Stratum:
Kingcap: Fire x 1.5, Volt x .5, Ice x .5
Gorezard: Ice x 1.5
Oldcrab: Volt x 1.5, Physical x .5
Bloodman: Volt x 1.5, Everything else x .75
Trihorn: Volt, Fire, and Ice x 1.5, Physical x .5
Sickwood: Fire x 1.5, Volt x .5, Ice x .5
Carbuncl: Volt, Fire, and Ice x 0
Ebonail: Fire x 1.5, Volt x .5, Ice x .5
Mothlord: Volt x 1.5, Fire x .75
Crawlest: Volt x 1.5, Fire x .25
Cactlord: Volt x .75, Ice x .75, Fire x 0, Poison Immune
Sauromar: Ice x 1.5, Volt x 1.25, Fire x 1.25, Physical x .75
Muckdile: Physical x .5, Instant Death immune

(Not sure on it being .5 as it's unlisted; just my feeling from fighting it)

Asterios: Ice x 1.25, Volt x 0
Riptor: Ice x 1.25
Hexgourd: Physical x 0
Iceking: Volt x 1.25, Physical(?) x .75, Ice x 0
Briareus: Volt x1.25, Fire x1.25, Physical x .5
Ur-child: None

Others:
Salamox: Fire x 0
Wyvern: None(?); Possible Stab weakness
Drake: Ice x 0
Dragon: Volt x 0
Wyrm: Fire x 0

Quests:
Fleehog: Bash) x 1.5
Spectre: Volt x 1.5, Physical x .75, Fire x 0, Ice x 0, Status Immune
Killfish: Volt x 1.5, Ice x .5
Mawfish: Volt x 1.5, Ice x 0
Thiclaw: Volt x 1.5, Physical x .25
Illgaze: Fire x 1.5
Edgewolf: Fire x 1.5, Ice x .75
Awebull: Fire x 1.5
Banepion: Volt x 1.5, Physical x .75
Tortevil: Ice x 1.5, Volt x 1.25, Fire x 1.25, Physical x .75
Invader: Volt x 1.5, Poison Immune
Call Ape: Fire x 1.5, Volt x .5, Ice x .5
Huelord: Volt x 1.5, Fire x .75
Greed Bud: Fire x 1.5[/spoiler]

[TeslaNewton]

Floor 17 FOE
[spoiler]I tried Volt on the Flygourds, but I don't think much damage was done, unless I'm misremembering which is entirely possible. I've been focused on killing them quickly while they were bound, and Megido wiped out at least 45% of their HP. I'll try Ice & Volt next time.

I know many say the Alchemists don't pull their weight, but mine is really useful. He really helped me take down the fully bound Flygourd quickly. Newton would Megido, while Onyx would Dominate, then she would use Climax right after. He also was very helpful in the 3rd Stratum with the damn crabs. He's also good with the all Kilpion mobs. I like my Alchemist. He may get switched out post-game like in EO, but so far he's working fine for me.[/spoiler]

[scy]

Alchemists
[spoiler]Their main problem is that their Elementals cap out at 113 basePWR with only a 150% Multiplier (Megido is 180 and a 150% Multiplier, to compare). That is, they effectively will never have better than a 113 ATK Weapon. That said, their damage formula weighs their basePWR a bit more than Weapons but it's still not enough:

(20 + STR) * (STR + [wATK / 6]) * (20 + [wATK / 3])

(20 + TEC) * (TEC + [basePWR / 2]) * (20 + basePower)

With wATK = basePWR, Alchemist spells are roughly 3 times the damage of a regular attack. However, Weapons can get to be almost twice as strong (~175%) so it drops down to a little under twice the damage of a regular attack. Throw in skills having a better damage multiplier and it's just hard to justify using them when they're barely stronger than a regular attack on a neutral target.

Note: Those formulas are before the Defense one which has a huuuuge impact on damage (a VIT of 6, for instance, lowers the melee damage by a factor of 1/600) so if you plug in numbers and get something in the millions ... it's not totally incorrect. I haven't figured this formula out yet.[/spoiler]

[TeslaNewton]

[scy]

Alchemists
[spoiler]*laughs* Yeah, numbers and formulae tend to do that

It's pretty much a case of early-to-mid game, they're vastly stronger than the rest of your group as their "Weapon" upgrades come in the form of leveling their Skills as opposed to the other classes who need new weapons since Skills only modify their base Damage. That is, you're in complete control of when they get stronger as opposed to needing drops to improve their damage.

By the time the mid-game rolls around and the two have the same "ATK," the Alchemist is still doing around ~400% their normal damage which is a respectable amount (it's on par with Ronins, Gunners, etc). The problem, however, is come late-game where they're STILL using the same ATK they did around the 4th Stratum and they haven't gained any damage since then besides upping their TEC so their damage compared to the others drops lower and lower.

All this boils down to is that their overall Damage relative to the rest of the group goes DOWN as the game progresses while the other classes just keep improving. Really, what they should've done is:

(20 + TEC) * (TEC + [basePWR / 2 + wATK / 10]) * (20 + basePower + [wATK / 5])

This makes Weapon upgrades do SOMETHING to them and has a way to increase their damage once they've capped out their Skills ... though it does make small Weapon upgrades not that noticeable to them but, hey, it at least makes sense to use something besides whatever gives the most +TP since they cap TEC so easily anyway.

It's not a big deal, really, but it's just hard to justify end-game use for them when, for example, a Hexer can hit for 2544 damage for 19 TP once they cap their HP--this is easily nearly four times the damage of an end-game Alchemist's Megido and almost 3 times the damage of Flame/Freeze/Thunder on a Dampen'd target with Analysis. Alchemists really need some better Damage scaling and some other abilities need to be totally rebalanced (like, Revenge should really use the HP lost in battle and not HP lost in general).

And not saying you shouldn't use one as that's your choice, really, and you can beat the game (and post-game) with one. Just saying how things are.[/spoiler]

[TeslaNewton]

[spoiler]Thanks for the info. I'll probably do what I did in EO. I'll use the alchemist through to the end of the main game, and then use someone else for the post game. I did create a Hexer and a War Mage. I plan on using them at some point, probably end game, even though it'll mean taking out Tesla & Newton. *sniff* At least they'll get to see most of the labyrinth.

ETA And thanks for not telling to ditch the alchemist. I get so annoyed with the "that's a bad party, you need a DH/WM/H/G/R, or whatever so long as you have DH/WM/H." Yes, I know that's a great party that'll kick everyone's ass and make the game easy, but I don't want that party. Not right now. Maybe I'll use that post-game. Anyway, sorry for the mini rant. I just really like your advice and appreciate the lack of lecture. [/spoiler]

[scy]

Haha, the irony...
[spoiler]Since the cookie-cutter "YOU MUST USE THIS!1!1!" party is my original party. It's what I get for posting so damn much at GameFAQs I guess since a lot of party advice topics ended up being "just use Scy's group" or something similar. Baaah.

Really, any balanced group can beat the game; I've done every boss with a trio, done the Floor 30 boss with a Protector + DH (and could probably do the Dragons with just these two), and someone's done the main story with a solo DH. Hell, having a Protector is pretty much enough to get through any fight in the game if you play it smart.[/spoiler]

[TeslaNewton]

Heh
[spoiler]The funny thing is, I used P/L/S/M/A for the main game and P/L/S/M/T for the post game of EO. After doing all that, I went back and played a bit with the Hexer and Dark Hunter and liked them. The Ronin was a pain because of the stances. For EOII, I wanted to use a DH, H, and an R. But I also love the alchemists and I wanted a range fighter. So I went with M/DH/R/A/G because gunners have more power than Survs and they look neat! And I wanted to use a least one of the new characters. I wanted to use a War Mage, but Medic has easily maxed Scavenge, which I love. Tesla can pick carcasses clean! I don't really want to have to go nuts trying to get rare drops. Plus, its good for raising en. So that's why I went with the team that I chose. I did a lot of thinking too. I knew I really wanted the DH/R/A and beyond that, it was just a matter of who do I want to use. I do want to use a Hexer because they are bitching with the statuses, but I like my offensive team. It's a bit harder for me to play because I don't have the defense like I did in EO, so I get my butt kicked a lot. It's getting better though. I just have to be judicious with my use of Tesla's TP. I have both Cure3 & Salve3 maxed, so the TP hit can suck, but I wait until characters' HP gets pretty low before I cast. I love those spells. Right now I'm boosting her HP & Str and will next go for Caduceus. She already has TP up maxed. I like my party and don't really want to change it.[/spoiler]

[Maxine MagicFox]

Floor 25 complete -

[spoiler]Overlord DONE! I dunno... my review is that while the game itself is fun and has a lot better features than the first, this game's last stratum just didn't have that "spark" the first game had. It was kinda of disappointing. And the final boss was really not hard. The only thing hard about it was the fact that I FORGOT TO BRING SOME FUCKING AMRITAS!! OR ANY TP REPLENISHING ITEMS! >_< I got lucky in that my Dark Hunter poisoned him and that I had two Hamo IIs which went to my Medic and my Protector. ^_^; It was not a fun situation... it really wasn't. But after it was done I was like... "the hardest part of that fight was my own stupidity".[/spoiler]

First impressions of Floor 26
[spoiler] THIS had a spark. It opened up with the oh so great wallpaper and I was like OMG! And the whole area is just so gorgeous, too! LOL, okay. This area just seems like it's going to be fun because it's a Beautiful Hell. Uhhh, but I have to figure out where to go for that quest. I went to the spots I thought it would be but nothing triggered but now I'm wondering "oh shit... maybe I had to look for a 'check'" Dammit... here I go again![/spoiler]