Random video/youtube thread!!

[PLA]

^ "Faggot" has a long derogatory history. It applied to heretics. It applied to women.

[Trifkin]

He makes the argument that it isn't as historically significant as other derogatory terms like "nigger," so it shouldn't be a big deal... but that doesn't matter, because people are offended by it NOW. And he says the people "who fancy themselves progressives," are GIVING gay people the word faggot to be offended by as though they wouldn't have been concerned about it on their own? And as though the LGBT community needs permission from those outside of it to take offense. Like "hey, you guys don't have (a plethora) of names people call you that mean they hate you and think you're lower than they are! Here's faggot!"

[Reynard-Miri]

[Trifkin]

Just because you don't use it that way and have never seen or heard anyone else do it does not mean that in the simple act of walking down the street a gay person may never experience someone who hates gay people yelling at them and throwing things from their car and shouting, "Faggot!" Because it is able to be used in that context, it is completely understandable that lots of people would be upset for it to be used outside of that context, because it seems to imply that in either case it's perfectly okay. I don't think they're looking to get offended, it's just that the word itself actually does get used in a hate-filled way.

[Trifkin]

I don't really think it's a good insult, so I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

[zamisk]

[Reynard-Miri]

[Trifkin]

Yeah, and it's easy to say "don't let it bother you," or "don't give it that power," but it's much harder to actually remove the negative connotations from the word and cancel out your emotional reaction to said connotation.

[PLA]

[Reynard-Miri]

No, the connotations are there because a lot of people mean them.

[Liferake]

^If it weren't for connotations, the way we communicate would be vastly different, and we probably wouldn't have made it this far.

To connotate is to give a feel, whether it be positive, negative, demanding, or otherwise, to what you say to help get your message across. And for most of us, it is quite obvious what words carry positive or negative connotations. Nice, Pretty, and Good are all nice things you can say, and carry positive connotations most of the time. Vulgar language usually carries negative connotations.

Tone of voice and such also make a large difference in the connotation of what you say, but being on two separate ends of monitors kind of takes away that portion of communication, in exchange for allowing us to think more about our response.

Connotation can be used in a powerful way, both positively for Morale and making good first impressions, and negatively to try to dismantle or hurt somebody or something. Taking it away entirely is a bad thing, as without good connotation we would fail to communicate good intentions and feelings, which a well built society would not be able to survive without.

Point being: We're flawed creatures, and having connotations for stuff is a GOOD THING, as it allows us to communicate very effectively and effeciently to a larger variety of people. Positve and Negative connotations are not bad things.

[Reynard-Miri]

[Trifkin]

We're not computers who take every word everyone says at face value. We are humans who experience a myriad of emotions which give depth and flavor to conversations. And I can SAY that I love you and you'll know what the words mean, but I can say it in several different tones and several different contexts which will inform you as to whether or not it's platonic love, whether or not I'm being sarcastic altogether, and further I can show that love by being patient, kind, giving you a hug, trying to help you when you need it... you couldn't get any of that out of a dictionary definition. And when people use words a certain way and accompany those words with unkind actions showing hatred, those actions can attach themselves to those words.

@Reynard - Yeah, when I first heard the word 'faggot' it was being used by someone to describe a gay man. Millions of people are introduced to that word in the same way and only later find out that it USED TO BE used to refer to a bundle of sticks. I have never ONCE in my life 1)seen a bundle of sticks in person, because really what use do they have in modern cities?* 2) heard someone casually, literally, sincerely refer to an actual bundle of sticks as a faggot. I have heard it used to insult someone who is gay and I have heard it used amongst friends to insult each other when someone was being weak or somehow feminine (which is of course inherently bad). And I've even heard those same people go further and say, "Hahaha, yeah, such a faggot, I bet you like it in the butt," and similar things like that.

Words do change over time, even their dictionary definitions. That's how we got a language to begin with, by adapting old words for new uses.

*Even when I lived out in the country we never bundled them : / Stacked them at the most.

[Trifkin]

But the important part of the whole point of this debate is that people don't THINK of that actual meaning when they use or hear that word. They think gay person. They do not envision sticks and they do not think of fire wood.

[Reynard-Miri]

Why do dictionaries include anything beyond how to pronounce the word? I mean, in the end words are just a string of sounds with no inherent meaning.