Visual Novels

[scy]

Umineko Game 5
[spoiler]There was a knocking sound. No other sound could've made this. It has to be the sound of knocking. There being a knocking sound must occur; no sound but them believing there to have been one would flat out be a denial of a Red Truth, isn't it?

The only opening I can see is in the definition of "to knock" since the Red doesn't encompass the "right?" part of the definition of "to knock" so there's some loophole. Maybe I'm misreading it? How are you getting there to have been no sound at all and everyone misheard silence into a knocking sound?

As for the letter: "Krauss, Natsuhi and Genji did not even touch that letter!."

As for leaving it there or it getting pushed against the wall or whatever: "No one in the mansion placed the letter in the hallway. This includes doing so by all concepts, such as directly, indirectly, intentionally, coincidentally, and unintentionally."[/spoiler]

[Riseatrance]

[Sampson]

[spoiler]
Well, I meant someone in the guesthouse at the time placed the letter there while they were in the mansion earlier.

The way I see it, the letter and knock were technically part of a fantasy scene. Right now, I can't think of a way that someone placed the letter there, knocked on the door, then ran away quickly. Actually, that's impossible, I think. So an "illusion of the Witch" is created or something like that. Also, this may be stretching it, but the only person with an objective viewpoint was in the guesthouse at the time. So, the knock never happened.

I just find it strange that Lambda never bothered to just say in red that somebody knocked on the door.

And instead of Krauss picking up the letter, let's just say somebody was sitting at an angle where they could see the letter if the door was opened, and when Krauss opened the door, they spotted the letter and picked it up.[/spoiler]

[scy]

seacats
[spoiler]The amount of Red Truths revolving around the knock is staggering. It's like 8 lines. The same can be said for the letter. It's pretty much for this reason that I've not dismissed them as being non-existent, even without the detective's perspective. That said, I think them not existing is a theory people think for it by-and-large (that or logic error wheee).

I think it cannot be said that someone knocked on the door. The sound is a knocking sound. This is to be defined as the sound of someone in front of a door and knocking on it. It just can't be said that someone knocking is what caused the knocking sound. The more I read it, there does seem to be an opening for a "there was no sound but the sound was a knocking one" but this, and the letter idea, seems to revolve around the notion that the Ushiromiya family is blind and deaf (or incredibly naive / easy to convince).

...which would probably be a reasonable explanation for Shkannon, if nothing else.[/spoiler]

I think I may just let my brain rest until August and Game 7, to be honest.

[Isabelyes]

I second Saya no Uta; It's a pretty awesome VN.

Also, since Higurashi no Naku Koro ni is so complex in it's VN form (different episodes and all),
I decided to watch the anime.

Is it as bad as Tsukihime's anime is supposed to be?
I don't want to see a shitty half-version of a fantastic story first;
If it's bad, I'd much rather try to get the VN.

So, anyone know if the anime is good?

[Maxine MagicFox]

isa: I've only watched the anime. I loved EVERY second of it. But of course, I do not know the true form of it, either. However, even before I knew Tsukihime was a VN, I could never get past the first three episodes it was such shit. I wonder if this will help.

Also I viewed Umineko's anime as half-disaster before I read the VN (now I just think it's a full disaster).

Higurashi anime is delicious. <3 I will one day play the VN when I have the money to buy it. ^_^

[Maxine MagicFox]

Ok.... I've re-read the description and I'm still not quite understanding:

Game 4 spoilers:
[spoiler]What the heck is "Blue Truth" in layman's terms? I didn't understand it in the anime but by then I didn't really care and now that I'm at this spot in the VN I'm still not getting it.

It's not "truth", I get that. It's a demand that Beatrice has to eventually break in Red Truth? But... didn't white words do the same thing?? I don't get the grand importance of these things?[/spoiler]

[Sampson]

[spoiler]It's basically a way to separate ramblings from official theories. They stand as truth unless disproved by a red truth.

While this makes it seem it seem like you just say everyone is the culprit, one by one, in blue, you're liable to have your chest punctured multiple times by metaphorical red swords. And I'm pretty sure that would violated Knox's 6th.[/spoiler]

[scy]

Higurashi's VN isn't that complicated; there's 8 Games broken down into 2 arcs (Questions and Answers). The first four games (Onikakushi, Watanagashi, Tatarigoroshi, and Himatsubushi) are the Question Arcs and the last four games (Meakashi, Tsumihoroboshi, Minagoroshi, and Matsuribayashi) are the Answer Arcs. More-or-less, a Question Arc has a corresponding(-ish) Answer Arc to it. The order they're listed is the order they're to be played in. The Anime covers them more-or-less in that order (switches Meakashi/Tsumihoroboshi, injects their own made-up arc).

As far as the anime is concerned, Higurashi anime more-or-less fucks the VN plotlines as far as consistency is concerned. However, Higurashi is overall less complex so the overall fuckups still leaves a story behind that one can follow. Still, it's pretty different than the VNs. Umineko, comparatively, sticks to the VN a bit better but, due to Umineko's complexity, the story overall suffers more from the errors and you're kind of left "why the fuck was there a dragon???" and otherwise confused, disgruntled, and so-on.

tl;dr: Higurashi Anime overall better, less consistent with the source material; Umineko Anime overall worse, more consistent with the source material.

[spoiler]"More consistent" is still pretty much "what the fuck are you doing Studio DEEN fuck you holy shit what is wrong with you" so don't take that as "HIGURASHI SOURCE > UMINEKO SOURCE" since they're pretty different.

More or less, if you weren't told they fucked up Higurashi's story, you probably wouldn't notice. You'll notice in Umineko. It's just more complex, longer, and more involved than Higurashi; the anime could've used an extra 13 episode season and they'd still have had to rush.[/spoiler]

Edit: Oh and for the Umineko question:
[spoiler]Sampson more or less got it but I just feel like tacking on. Red Truths are, well, "the truth." Blue Truths, then, are the Detective's Theories. If a Blue Truth, any Blue Truth, works, then it is a victory for Anti-Fantasy; this is what invokes the Red Truth to be needed to cut them down.

They're just "more official" than normal words.

"Kanon is responsible for these murders! He faked his own death and was given free reign to roam!" and "Kanon is responsible for these murders! He faked his own death and was given free reign to roam!" differ in how necessary they are to be responded to. The former is an idle theory being spoken; the latter is an attack to the Witches.[/spoiler]

[Maxine MagicFox]

[spoiler]Aww... I think I get it now Scy.[/spoiler]

[Isabelyes]

[scy]

I also should mention that the only English source of all the games is pretty much terribly done (spelling errors, grammar errors, etc.). There's a fan translation of Onikakushi-hen and the first game is available for free so, if nothing else, I'd play that at some point.

Otherwise, enjoy~

[Isabelyes]

Funny, I'm starting Higurashi (The English VN) right now.
Zomg, Fate? Anyway, I just finished Episode 3, can't wait for Episode 4.
I heard that that's when it all gets fucked up.

Edit: Wait, what? Difficulty of the first chapter is "high"?

[scy]

All of them have a difficulty rating. It's mostly just for flavor as it's not like you're doing anything and none of them really correlate with anything. It's more of a "how confused will you be trying to figure things out about this story?" than anything else.

[spoiler]Onikakushi-hen's "difficulty" stems from the fact you know nothing of the cast at all so ... you can't say much about what happens since you know nothing.[/spoiler]

[Isabelyes]

Ah, I get it.

I think I'll watch the anime before continuing the Visual Novel, though.
Just finished Episode 4, and it's freaky as hell, and suits my tastes perfectly~ ^^

Can't wait to start Episode 5.

Edit: Started it, and woah:

[spoiler]What is this, some alternate reality or something?
anyway, I can't get enough of the beginning.
It's so sick, it strikes just that little bit of fear and perfect disgust in me that makes me reluctant to see it, but also makes it deliciously addictive.

Just - woah.[/spoiler]

Also, Maxine: if you want the VN; I've downloaded the first four so-called "Question Arcs". I could PM you the link, if you'd want.