Umineko hurts my brain in so many ways.
And this better be fake:
[spoiler]
Apparently, she's Dine's wife.[/spoiler]
Hopefully, these are real:
[spoiler]
Somebody found the gold~~
"Ahahah. What do I care about Ange. That shitty brat, not even once I did think she was cute"
[/spoiler]
Visual Novels
Moderator: ItL Moderators
To be fair...
[spoiler]There's a lot of fan-theories in general being confirmed and it is Bernkastel's game ... god only knows what is "really" true at the end of things.
Considering Bernkastel's last piece (Erika) was just an interpretation of the anti-fantasy fans ...
Also:
Eva
Ange
Lion
...god damn it.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]There's a lot of fan-theories in general being confirmed and it is Bernkastel's game ... god only knows what is "really" true at the end of things.
Considering Bernkastel's last piece (Erika) was just an interpretation of the anti-fantasy fans ...
Also:
Eva
Ange
Lion
...god damn it.[/spoiler]
Moral of the story: I wouldn't put it past Kinzo.
[spoiler]Battler is removed to let Bernkastel take over I suppose.
Honestly, you could say anything happened in Game 7 and I'd possibly believe it. It doesn't mean it's what actually happened, mind you, but it's possible with Bern in charge.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Battler is removed to let Bernkastel take over I suppose.
Honestly, you could say anything happened in Game 7 and I'd possibly believe it. It doesn't mean it's what actually happened, mind you, but it's possible with Bern in charge.[/spoiler]
-
Sampson
- Literary Voyeur
- Posts: 2809
- Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:02 pm [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
Well, in that case,
[spoiler]Everyone on the island participates in a giant orgy (except Rosa; she died on the first twilight) and Gohda becomes pregnant. Shannon is impersonating a total of four people (despite the fact that she doesn't actually exist, mind you), and Genji also dies on the first twilight (Kumasawa killed him for eating her mackerel).[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Everyone on the island participates in a giant orgy (except Rosa; she died on the first twilight) and Gohda becomes pregnant. Shannon is impersonating a total of four people (despite the fact that she doesn't actually exist, mind you), and Genji also dies on the first twilight (Kumasawa killed him for eating her mackerel).[/spoiler]
So uh ...
[spoiler]Claire is real, the Fuikuin servants are real, and Kinzo really is a Battler clone. Well, there's been confirmations on them but a part of me is still doubtful.
If true, this is such a lazy sprite job by Ryukishi. Seriously lazy. Every single one of them is a copy paste job of existing sprites (Beato/Erika, Shannon, Battler). I mean, I know Ryukishi can't draw (and, really, other VNs do little work too) but still. Just feels a bit weak that most of them are "COPY/PASTE!" At least Wil "OBJECTION!!!" Wright and Lion/Leon/Rion "slash fiction started" Ushiromiya look unique.
I already hate Game 7.[/spoiler]
Edit: Epitaph Solution
[spoiler]Not sure if it's verified but the Railway theory (specifically, the Qilian theory) is addressed. So, my theory was right just wrong country (Taiwan, not Japan) for the railway to follow. Rebun and Kogane (黄金の郷) was an epic red herring I guess.
If nothing else, the key used (Qilian) makes a little more sense, the word left makes a little more sense (LORD U -- Lord Ushiromiya, "Praise my honorable name"). Oh well. I was close enough, I guess~[/spoiler]
Also... (serious spoilers)
[spoiler]Bern's solution is ... weird. It works, I suppose, but ... I dunno.
I just ... I don't know.
Oh well, Kyrie culprit, Rudolph (semi-willing) and Shannon (batshit insane) accomplices. Bern's solution / Game 7 solution, not applicable to all fragments (at least, not yet).
Dunno, just never was a fan of Kyrietrice. Feels a bit lame.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Claire is real, the Fuikuin servants are real, and Kinzo really is a Battler clone. Well, there's been confirmations on them but a part of me is still doubtful.
If true, this is such a lazy sprite job by Ryukishi. Seriously lazy. Every single one of them is a copy paste job of existing sprites (Beato/Erika, Shannon, Battler). I mean, I know Ryukishi can't draw (and, really, other VNs do little work too) but still. Just feels a bit weak that most of them are "COPY/PASTE!" At least Wil "OBJECTION!!!" Wright and Lion/Leon/Rion "slash fiction started" Ushiromiya look unique.
I already hate Game 7.[/spoiler]
Edit: Epitaph Solution
[spoiler]Not sure if it's verified but the Railway theory (specifically, the Qilian theory) is addressed. So, my theory was right just wrong country (Taiwan, not Japan) for the railway to follow. Rebun and Kogane (黄金の郷) was an epic red herring I guess.
If nothing else, the key used (Qilian) makes a little more sense, the word left makes a little more sense (LORD U -- Lord Ushiromiya, "Praise my honorable name"). Oh well. I was close enough, I guess~[/spoiler]
Also... (serious spoilers)
[spoiler]Bern's solution is ... weird. It works, I suppose, but ... I dunno.
I just ... I don't know.
Oh well, Kyrie culprit, Rudolph (semi-willing) and Shannon (batshit insane) accomplices. Bern's solution / Game 7 solution, not applicable to all fragments (at least, not yet).
Dunno, just never was a fan of Kyrietrice. Feels a bit lame.[/spoiler]
-
Sampson
- Literary Voyeur
- Posts: 2809
- Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:02 pm [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
Just wondering (spoilers and whatnot!)...
[spoiler]
Is Shkannon confirmed or not? I did see something about Yasushkannon, but if that's true, how was the game solvable from Alliance?
Kyrie-culprit does make me happy, although I do like my "18 deaths for 18 years, Battler" motive more than...well, what was Kyrie's motive? It feels like a hollow victory for me (seeing as besides Kyrie, my theory was off...unless Shkannon is real, in which case I guessed Kanon correctly).
Breaking news, Eva moves up to second in my favorite MILFs list.
But it's nice to see that most people died this time instead of the whole game suspension thing. But was anyone around to even oppose Bern?
As for the sprite rips, I guess I'm okay with them. It's just weird that after six episodes of all new original characters whose designs have become familiar with the readers, Ryukishi decided to copy and paste.
I suppose Claire looking like Beatrice makes sense, though, since she's the personification of the rules (like we needed another one) and all...I think. Or maybe she was created just to cut down on the amount of Leon/Wright shippers.
...Although the fact that she showed up as a result of Bern's game seems to indicate that Bern may not be all that correct.
I need to know more about the Kyrie solution Bern came up with. I can't really pass judgment on it until I read the game myself, I suppose. I look forward to reading about Kyrie and Rudolf and Yasushkannon(trice) killing everyone. Especially the whole "beating Jessica to death" part.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
Is Shkannon confirmed or not? I did see something about Yasushkannon, but if that's true, how was the game solvable from Alliance?
Kyrie-culprit does make me happy, although I do like my "18 deaths for 18 years, Battler" motive more than...well, what was Kyrie's motive? It feels like a hollow victory for me (seeing as besides Kyrie, my theory was off...unless Shkannon is real, in which case I guessed Kanon correctly).
Breaking news, Eva moves up to second in my favorite MILFs list.
But it's nice to see that most people died this time instead of the whole game suspension thing. But was anyone around to even oppose Bern?
As for the sprite rips, I guess I'm okay with them. It's just weird that after six episodes of all new original characters whose designs have become familiar with the readers, Ryukishi decided to copy and paste.
I suppose Claire looking like Beatrice makes sense, though, since she's the personification of the rules (like we needed another one) and all...I think. Or maybe she was created just to cut down on the amount of Leon/Wright shippers.
...Although the fact that she showed up as a result of Bern's game seems to indicate that Bern may not be all that correct.
I need to know more about the Kyrie solution Bern came up with. I can't really pass judgment on it until I read the game myself, I suppose. I look forward to reading about Kyrie and Rudolf and Yasushkannon(trice) killing everyone. Especially the whole "beating Jessica to death" part.
[/spoiler]
I'm waiting for my copy in the mail (or I'll just pirate it until it gets here >>)
...Anyway:
[spoiler]Shkannon is not confirmed, though it is worth noting they're still not seen together; Leon and Kanon, however, are seen together. Yasu idea is false.
HOWEVER, there is a scene with Will asking Shannon to get Kanon so they can all talk. Shannon goes weird and refuses; Will asks over and over and finally gives up. Shannon is relieved when he relents and returns to normal.
...so...yeah.
As for the Kyrie solution ...
...
Well ...
Nobody dies in this game. At least, not until the Tea Party scene. So, I'm not really sure about this "Kyrie" solution at all to be honest. It's ... really fucking strange.
Anyway, the "solution" as it were is more-or-less this:
1) All the adults together solve the epitaph.
2) Upon finding the gold, they are told about the bomb that will kill them all.
3) lolmasspanic
4) ???
5) Profit
6) Eva survives, everyone else dies.
Kyrie (and Rudolph) as the "culprits" is a bit off since it's a free-for-all. They just do the most of it, though Eva kills them both. Like a champ. This scenario seems to be Ange's reality so it's the solution to Game 3? Something like that, anyway.
Also:
07/15 = Battler's Birthday.
11/29 = Day the epitaph was solved by "Beatrice"? It has something to do with the gold and finding it, anyway.
Edit: Oh and Claire is the game's "storyteller" or reader much like Ange previously. She presents stories throughout the game that are glimpses into the past (Kinzo meeting Beatrice, Beatrice's awesome submarine, "Beatrice" finding the gold, etc.)
The Tea Party scene is watched by Leon and Ange so it's more of a "here's how this shit goes" instead of a normal gameboard playing out.[/spoiler]
...Anyway:
[spoiler]Shkannon is not confirmed, though it is worth noting they're still not seen together; Leon and Kanon, however, are seen together. Yasu idea is false.
HOWEVER, there is a scene with Will asking Shannon to get Kanon so they can all talk. Shannon goes weird and refuses; Will asks over and over and finally gives up. Shannon is relieved when he relents and returns to normal.
...so...yeah.
As for the Kyrie solution ...
...
Well ...
Nobody dies in this game. At least, not until the Tea Party scene. So, I'm not really sure about this "Kyrie" solution at all to be honest. It's ... really fucking strange.
Anyway, the "solution" as it were is more-or-less this:
1) All the adults together solve the epitaph.
2) Upon finding the gold, they are told about the bomb that will kill them all.
3) lolmasspanic
4) ???
5) Profit
6) Eva survives, everyone else dies.
Kyrie (and Rudolph) as the "culprits" is a bit off since it's a free-for-all. They just do the most of it, though Eva kills them both. Like a champ. This scenario seems to be Ange's reality so it's the solution to Game 3? Something like that, anyway.
Also:
07/15 = Battler's Birthday.
11/29 = Day the epitaph was solved by "Beatrice"? It has something to do with the gold and finding it, anyway.
Edit: Oh and Claire is the game's "storyteller" or reader much like Ange previously. She presents stories throughout the game that are glimpses into the past (Kinzo meeting Beatrice, Beatrice's awesome submarine, "Beatrice" finding the gold, etc.)
The Tea Party scene is watched by Leon and Ange so it's more of a "here's how this shit goes" instead of a normal gameboard playing out.[/spoiler]
By the way (Game 7)
[spoiler]There's very few Red Truths. A few with the introduction of Phoenix Wright and Yaoi Leon and I think one at the end with Meta-Ange. The Reds, though, seem to be Van Dine's rules. Notably, #11 is present. It's mentioned that there's _12_ rules and the numbers are given when they're brought forth (1, 7, and 11) which makes it seem like 1-12 are used.
Haven't seen screens of those to try translating but I'm a bit curious about them. Really, this entire game takes place in white.
Edit: Oh yeah, the game ends with Sorceror Battler in the chapel. He's taking control for Game 8 and it's implied that Bernkastel is just flat out wrong. Considering her "solution" is people just killing each other wildly, I wager it makes sense that she's wrong.
SeriouslyLastEdit: This really is only in reference to Game 1 but ... Kinzo ranting about "I will leave nothing! Absolutely nothing! Nothing!" to Nanjo ... is pretty much a confession to the bomb's existence. [/spoiler]
Van Dine's Rules, for those who don't know them:
[spoiler] 1. The reader must have equal opportunity with the detective for solving the mystery. All clues must be plainly stated and described.
2. No willful tricks or deceptions may be placed on the reader other than those played legitimately by the criminal on the detective himself.
3. There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.
4. The detective himself, or one of the official investigators, should never turn out to be the culprit. This is bald trickery, on a par with offering some one a bright penny for a five-dollar gold piece. It's false pretenses.
5. The culprit must be determined by logical deductions — not by accident or coincidence or unmotivated confession. To solve a criminal problem in this latter fashion is like sending the reader on a deliberate wild-goose chase, and then telling him, after he has failed, that you had the object of his search up your sleeve all the time. Such an author is no better than a practical joker.
6. The detective novel must have a detective in it; and a detective is not a detective unless he detects. His function is to gather clues that will eventually lead to the person who did the dirty work in the first chapter; and if the detective does not reach his conclusions through an analysis of those clues, he has no more solved his problem than the schoolboy who gets his answer out of the back of the arithmetic.
7. There simply must be a corpse in a detective novel, and the deader the corpse the better. No lesser crime than murder will suffice. Three hundred pages is far too much pother for a crime other than murder. After all, the reader's trouble and expenditure of energy must be rewarded.
8. The problem of the crime must he solved by strictly naturalistic means. Such methods for learning the truth as slate-writing, ouija-boards, mind-reading, spiritualistic se'ances, crystal-gazing, and the like, are taboo. A reader has a chance when matching his wits with a rationalistic detective, but if he must compete with the world of spirits and go chasing about the fourth dimension of metaphysics, he is defeated ab initio.
9. There must be but one detective — that is, but one protagonist of deduction — one deus ex machina. To bring the minds of three or four, or sometimes a gang of detectives to bear on a problem, is not only to disperse the interest and break the direct thread of logic, but to take an unfair advantage of the reader. If there is more than one detective the reader doesn't know who his codeductor is. It's like making the reader run a race with a relay team.
10. The culprit must turn out to be a person who has played a more or less prominent part in the story — that is, a person with whom the reader is familiar and in whom he takes an interest.
11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.
12. There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. The culprit may, of course, have a minor helper or co-plotter; but the entire onus must rest on one pair of shoulders: the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature.
13. Secret societies, camorras, mafias, et al., have no place in a detective story. A fascinating and truly beautiful murder is irremediably spoiled by any such wholesale culpability. To be sure, the murderer in a detective novel should be given a sporting chance; but it is going too far to grant him a secret society to fall back on. No high-class, self-respecting murderer would want such odds.
14. The method of murder, and the means of detecting it, must be be rational and scientific. That is to say, pseudo-science and purely imaginative and speculative devices are not to be tolerated in the roman policier. Once an author soars into the realm of fantasy, in the Jules Verne manner, he is outside the bounds of detective fiction, cavorting in the uncharted reaches of adventure.
15. The truth of the problem must at all times be apparent — provided the reader is shrewd enough to see it. By this I mean that if the reader, after learning the explanation for the crime, should reread the book, he would see that the solution had, in a sense, been staring him in the face-that all the clues really pointed to the culprit — and that, if he had been as clever as the detective, he could have solved the mystery himself without going on to the final chapter. That the clever reader does often thus solve the problem goes without saying.
16. A detective novel should contain no long descriptive passages, no literary dallying with side-issues, no subtly worked-out character analyses, no "atmospheric" preoccupations. such matters have no vital place in a record of crime and deduction. They hold up the action and introduce issues irrelevant to the main purpose, which is to state a problem, analyze it, and bring it to a successful conclusion. To be sure, there must be a sufficient descriptiveness and character delineation to give the novel verisimilitude.
17. A professional criminal must never be shouldered with the guilt of a crime in a detective story. Crimes by housebreakers and bandits are the province of the police departments — not of authors and brilliant amateur detectives. A really fascinating crime is one committed by a pillar of a church, or a spinster noted for her charities.
18. A crime in a detective story must never turn out to be an accident or a suicide. To end an odyssey of sleuthing with such an anti-climax is to hoodwink the trusting and kind-hearted reader.
19. The motives for all crimes in detective stories should be personal. International plottings and war politics belong in a different category of fiction — in secret-service tales, for instance. But a murder story must be kept gemütlich, so to speak. It must reflect the reader's everyday experiences, and give him a certain outlet for his own repressed desires and emotions.
20. And (to give my Credo an even score of items) I herewith list a few of the devices which no self-respecting detective story writer will now avail himself of. They have been employed too often, and are familiar to all true lovers of literary crime. To use them is a confession of the author's ineptitude and lack of originality. (a) Determining the identity of the culprit by comparing the butt of a cigarette left at the scene of the crime with the brand smoked by a suspect. (b) The bogus spiritualistic se'ance to frighten the culprit into giving himself away. (c) Forged fingerprints. (d) The dummy-figure alibi. (e) The dog that does not bark and thereby reveals the fact that the intruder is familiar. (f)The final pinning of the crime on a twin, or a relative who looks exactly like the suspected, but innocent, person. (g) The hypodermic syringe and the knockout drops. (h) The commission of the murder in a locked room after the police have actually broken in. (i) The word association test for guilt. (j) The cipher, or code letter, which is eventually unraveled by the sleuth. [/spoiler]
Edit: Oh and I see your three and raise you these:
[spoiler][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nivz895rGYc[/youtube]
Piano remix of far.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrBW8MxxuR4[/youtube]
Random_new_slowtrack.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]There's very few Red Truths. A few with the introduction of Phoenix Wright and Yaoi Leon and I think one at the end with Meta-Ange. The Reds, though, seem to be Van Dine's rules. Notably, #11 is present. It's mentioned that there's _12_ rules and the numbers are given when they're brought forth (1, 7, and 11) which makes it seem like 1-12 are used.
Haven't seen screens of those to try translating but I'm a bit curious about them. Really, this entire game takes place in white.
Edit: Oh yeah, the game ends with Sorceror Battler in the chapel. He's taking control for Game 8 and it's implied that Bernkastel is just flat out wrong. Considering her "solution" is people just killing each other wildly, I wager it makes sense that she's wrong.
SeriouslyLastEdit: This really is only in reference to Game 1 but ... Kinzo ranting about "I will leave nothing! Absolutely nothing! Nothing!" to Nanjo ... is pretty much a confession to the bomb's existence. [/spoiler]
Van Dine's Rules, for those who don't know them:
[spoiler] 1. The reader must have equal opportunity with the detective for solving the mystery. All clues must be plainly stated and described.
2. No willful tricks or deceptions may be placed on the reader other than those played legitimately by the criminal on the detective himself.
3. There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.
4. The detective himself, or one of the official investigators, should never turn out to be the culprit. This is bald trickery, on a par with offering some one a bright penny for a five-dollar gold piece. It's false pretenses.
5. The culprit must be determined by logical deductions — not by accident or coincidence or unmotivated confession. To solve a criminal problem in this latter fashion is like sending the reader on a deliberate wild-goose chase, and then telling him, after he has failed, that you had the object of his search up your sleeve all the time. Such an author is no better than a practical joker.
6. The detective novel must have a detective in it; and a detective is not a detective unless he detects. His function is to gather clues that will eventually lead to the person who did the dirty work in the first chapter; and if the detective does not reach his conclusions through an analysis of those clues, he has no more solved his problem than the schoolboy who gets his answer out of the back of the arithmetic.
7. There simply must be a corpse in a detective novel, and the deader the corpse the better. No lesser crime than murder will suffice. Three hundred pages is far too much pother for a crime other than murder. After all, the reader's trouble and expenditure of energy must be rewarded.
8. The problem of the crime must he solved by strictly naturalistic means. Such methods for learning the truth as slate-writing, ouija-boards, mind-reading, spiritualistic se'ances, crystal-gazing, and the like, are taboo. A reader has a chance when matching his wits with a rationalistic detective, but if he must compete with the world of spirits and go chasing about the fourth dimension of metaphysics, he is defeated ab initio.
9. There must be but one detective — that is, but one protagonist of deduction — one deus ex machina. To bring the minds of three or four, or sometimes a gang of detectives to bear on a problem, is not only to disperse the interest and break the direct thread of logic, but to take an unfair advantage of the reader. If there is more than one detective the reader doesn't know who his codeductor is. It's like making the reader run a race with a relay team.
10. The culprit must turn out to be a person who has played a more or less prominent part in the story — that is, a person with whom the reader is familiar and in whom he takes an interest.
11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.
12. There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. The culprit may, of course, have a minor helper or co-plotter; but the entire onus must rest on one pair of shoulders: the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature.
13. Secret societies, camorras, mafias, et al., have no place in a detective story. A fascinating and truly beautiful murder is irremediably spoiled by any such wholesale culpability. To be sure, the murderer in a detective novel should be given a sporting chance; but it is going too far to grant him a secret society to fall back on. No high-class, self-respecting murderer would want such odds.
14. The method of murder, and the means of detecting it, must be be rational and scientific. That is to say, pseudo-science and purely imaginative and speculative devices are not to be tolerated in the roman policier. Once an author soars into the realm of fantasy, in the Jules Verne manner, he is outside the bounds of detective fiction, cavorting in the uncharted reaches of adventure.
15. The truth of the problem must at all times be apparent — provided the reader is shrewd enough to see it. By this I mean that if the reader, after learning the explanation for the crime, should reread the book, he would see that the solution had, in a sense, been staring him in the face-that all the clues really pointed to the culprit — and that, if he had been as clever as the detective, he could have solved the mystery himself without going on to the final chapter. That the clever reader does often thus solve the problem goes without saying.
16. A detective novel should contain no long descriptive passages, no literary dallying with side-issues, no subtly worked-out character analyses, no "atmospheric" preoccupations. such matters have no vital place in a record of crime and deduction. They hold up the action and introduce issues irrelevant to the main purpose, which is to state a problem, analyze it, and bring it to a successful conclusion. To be sure, there must be a sufficient descriptiveness and character delineation to give the novel verisimilitude.
17. A professional criminal must never be shouldered with the guilt of a crime in a detective story. Crimes by housebreakers and bandits are the province of the police departments — not of authors and brilliant amateur detectives. A really fascinating crime is one committed by a pillar of a church, or a spinster noted for her charities.
18. A crime in a detective story must never turn out to be an accident or a suicide. To end an odyssey of sleuthing with such an anti-climax is to hoodwink the trusting and kind-hearted reader.
19. The motives for all crimes in detective stories should be personal. International plottings and war politics belong in a different category of fiction — in secret-service tales, for instance. But a murder story must be kept gemütlich, so to speak. It must reflect the reader's everyday experiences, and give him a certain outlet for his own repressed desires and emotions.
20. And (to give my Credo an even score of items) I herewith list a few of the devices which no self-respecting detective story writer will now avail himself of. They have been employed too often, and are familiar to all true lovers of literary crime. To use them is a confession of the author's ineptitude and lack of originality. (a) Determining the identity of the culprit by comparing the butt of a cigarette left at the scene of the crime with the brand smoked by a suspect. (b) The bogus spiritualistic se'ance to frighten the culprit into giving himself away. (c) Forged fingerprints. (d) The dummy-figure alibi. (e) The dog that does not bark and thereby reveals the fact that the intruder is familiar. (f)The final pinning of the crime on a twin, or a relative who looks exactly like the suspected, but innocent, person. (g) The hypodermic syringe and the knockout drops. (h) The commission of the murder in a locked room after the police have actually broken in. (i) The word association test for guilt. (j) The cipher, or code letter, which is eventually unraveled by the sleuth. [/spoiler]
Edit: Oh and I see your three and raise you these:
[spoiler][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nivz895rGYc[/youtube]
Piano remix of far.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrBW8MxxuR4[/youtube]
Random_new_slowtrack.[/spoiler]
"Moral" of Game 7
[spoiler]The "whydunnit" is important; you cannot just base the culprit on a lack of an alibi. The murder needs a heart. A reason.
This is part of Phoenix Wright's introduction at a trial for some maid; "just because she has no alibi doesn't mean she's the culprit!" This scene finishes with: It is forbidden for an employee to be the criminal. This is the 11th rule of Van Dine's 20 rules of the detective story.
...it's still a big Red, though. A servant cannot be the culprit. Oh boy.
Really, this makes sense of Van Dine. He was more interested in mysteries as a journey and as a puzzle to solve; there needs to be a (single) culprit that is responsible for everything. There needs to be mounds of evidence pointing to this culprit. This culprit has reasons and rationale for their behavior; there's no "murder for murder" ideology. Their methods must be able to be found out; the reader, alongside the (solitary) detective, should be able to solve everything with what is presented. It is not detective fiction if one does not detect.
Incidentally, they don't answer Game 6's riddle
btw, NAZI GOLD.
Edit: Oh and, incidentally, Bernkastel mentions she is _not_ the GM of this game. She may be trolling Leon but ... yeah. Considering that like every possible fan theory ever is gone through in this game, I'm thinking that "we" are the GM of this game.
Edit2: Finally got a screen of Will's Red and he definitely states that there are 20 Rules so the initial spoilers of "only using 12" are wrong apparently.[/spoiler]
Game 7 Quick Summary:
[spoiler]Three parts: Main, Tea Party, Ura Tea Party:
Main: This is the one-in-a-quadrillion kakera in which Natsuhi accepts the child given to her: Leon. This child is the child of Kinzo and Beatrice II (1967 Beatrice). Leon becomes the successor to the family, Battler never returns to the island, and nobody dies.
Tea Party: This returns to the game board we're familiar with: Leon isn't there but Battler is. There are almost no fantasy elements on this boar; I mean, Beatrice shows up but gets gunned down. All the adults find the gold simultaneously, Eva accidentally shoots and kills Natsuhi, Hideyoshi kills Krauss, Kyrie kills Hideyoshi and Rosa and shoots (non-lethal) Eva; Kyrie and Rudolph murder the children and then Eva kills them both.
Ura Tea Party: Bern, Lambda, and Featherine are discussing the game; Lambda announces This game has no happy ending. Battler appears at the end and announces that he will tell the true story.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]The "whydunnit" is important; you cannot just base the culprit on a lack of an alibi. The murder needs a heart. A reason.
This is part of Phoenix Wright's introduction at a trial for some maid; "just because she has no alibi doesn't mean she's the culprit!" This scene finishes with: It is forbidden for an employee to be the criminal. This is the 11th rule of Van Dine's 20 rules of the detective story.
...it's still a big Red, though. A servant cannot be the culprit. Oh boy.
Really, this makes sense of Van Dine. He was more interested in mysteries as a journey and as a puzzle to solve; there needs to be a (single) culprit that is responsible for everything. There needs to be mounds of evidence pointing to this culprit. This culprit has reasons and rationale for their behavior; there's no "murder for murder" ideology. Their methods must be able to be found out; the reader, alongside the (solitary) detective, should be able to solve everything with what is presented. It is not detective fiction if one does not detect.
Incidentally, they don't answer Game 6's riddle
btw, NAZI GOLD.
Edit: Oh and, incidentally, Bernkastel mentions she is _not_ the GM of this game. She may be trolling Leon but ... yeah. Considering that like every possible fan theory ever is gone through in this game, I'm thinking that "we" are the GM of this game.
Edit2: Finally got a screen of Will's Red and he definitely states that there are 20 Rules so the initial spoilers of "only using 12" are wrong apparently.[/spoiler]
Game 7 Quick Summary:
[spoiler]Three parts: Main, Tea Party, Ura Tea Party:
Main: This is the one-in-a-quadrillion kakera in which Natsuhi accepts the child given to her: Leon. This child is the child of Kinzo and Beatrice II (1967 Beatrice). Leon becomes the successor to the family, Battler never returns to the island, and nobody dies.
Tea Party: This returns to the game board we're familiar with: Leon isn't there but Battler is. There are almost no fantasy elements on this boar; I mean, Beatrice shows up but gets gunned down. All the adults find the gold simultaneously, Eva accidentally shoots and kills Natsuhi, Hideyoshi kills Krauss, Kyrie kills Hideyoshi and Rosa and shoots (non-lethal) Eva; Kyrie and Rudolph murder the children and then Eva kills them both.
Ura Tea Party: Bern, Lambda, and Featherine are discussing the game; Lambda announces This game has no happy ending. Battler appears at the end and announces that he will tell the true story.[/spoiler]
I felt this deserved it's own post. Serious Game 7 spoilers.
[spoiler]Playing through myself now and uh ... there IS a bit about Yasu and his created Shannon and Kanon personalities. Though, Shannon is referenced by Yasu as being around before him? It's ... odd? I think I'm mistranslating it or something?
Basically, Yasu is Kinzo and Beatrice's child, given to Natsuhi and then punted off a cliff. Raised as a servant in the Fukuin orphanage and creates the Shannon personality; Yasu takes a back seat eventually (after learning of magic and Beatrice) and Shannon takes over and falls in love with Battler. Eventually, Kanon is created after Shannon gives up her love of Battler (since, you know, he abandoned her after white pony promises).
The game explicitly states that the Shannon personality solved the epitaph years ago, "became Beatrice", and seems to be the Beatrice we know of. On top of that, the servants know this (that is, the seven sister's servants). At least, that's the only way I can decipher one of the scenes with Shannon and the maid corp (AND KINZO) recognizing her as Beatrice. It's worth mentioning that this Yasushkannontrice is not in charge of things here.
Thing to note: Lion/Leon/Lyon/whateverstickingwithLion is Yasu, just with a better upbringing (or, rather, not getting punted off a fucking cliff). This fragment with Lion existing lacks any form of a tragedy since Battler doesn't return to Rokkenjima. However, I wonder if his return would even matter in a fragment with Lion.
Also, while at it, they do a damned good job of hiding Lion's gender. All references to (s)he are as neutral as possible. Even Jessica is confused at her own sibling's gender. Which is pretty awkward if you think about it.
Now the super fucking weird part? This fragment has Shannon and Kanon. It also has Lion. This is totally fucking illogical as all hell. Lion-after-dropped-from-cliff forms Shannon and Kanon so they should not exist if Lion exists. Then again, this IS a clusterfuck fragment formed by Bernkastel so it's possible that there's some shenanigans done that puts Shkannon there with Lion. Again, Lion spends the entire game confused as to who the hell the two of them are as if they're not supposed to be there.
That and this world seems to have some weird issue with barriers between the gameboard and the meta-world. Will travels between the two freely and Lion can plainly interact with Bernkastel. It's possible every Shkannon use is a meta-world thing. Or maybe Lion is still fucking broken though not enough to incite the deaths of everyone? I have no idea.
...
I can't help but feel someone's yanking someone's chain. It's both bluntly spelled out and yet ambiguous as hell at the same time. And there's a bloody fucking submarine and the RSI (Repubblica Sociale Italiana) and oh my god what the fuck?[/spoiler]
Shorter version of the above:
[spoiler]Shkannontrice pretty much confirmed. Lion is considered genderless. This could still be a massive troll. There's an awesome submarine and Nazi gold.
Also, Beatrice isn't the murderer/culprit.[/spoiler]
So, thoughts:
[spoiler]Assuming this Shkannontrice thing pans out as it's shown in Game 7 ... it makes something odd. Beatrice isn't a murderer despite her claims (Rule Z, possibly? Everyone thinks it's Beatrice, a parallel to Higurashi's Rule Z*) so Battler's sin makes little sense. I mean, if it causes Beatrice to spring into action ... so what? She isn't the lead role. Yet, Battler returning is the cause of the tragedy.
*Higurashi Rule Z: The fear will be instigated by suspecting the Sonozaki's bluff that they are behind everything.
Of course, maybe some odd loophole can be done where "Beatrice" doesn't do any killing but Yasu/Shannon/Kanon does. Still, let's roll with the idea that this entity isn't in charge of things. If Battler's return is the cause of everything (evidenced by Game 7's peaceful 1986 without Battler around) AND Beatrice isn't the culprit, why does the culprit spring into action here? Or who is this culprit?
I keep returning to Kyrie, really ... yet Battler claims the solution is wrong. Or maybe he just meant the motive is off (since the motive is pretty much: "I'm a greedy terrible person") ... though that'll be a pretty lame Game 8 if it's just correcting a missed motive.
I hope everything in this game is wrong and is Bernkastel trolling. Or, you know, us trolling since we're also her piece and presumably the true GM of this Game. Remember, Bernkastel "made" us her piece during the first game.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Playing through myself now and uh ... there IS a bit about Yasu and his created Shannon and Kanon personalities. Though, Shannon is referenced by Yasu as being around before him? It's ... odd? I think I'm mistranslating it or something?
Basically, Yasu is Kinzo and Beatrice's child, given to Natsuhi and then punted off a cliff. Raised as a servant in the Fukuin orphanage and creates the Shannon personality; Yasu takes a back seat eventually (after learning of magic and Beatrice) and Shannon takes over and falls in love with Battler. Eventually, Kanon is created after Shannon gives up her love of Battler (since, you know, he abandoned her after white pony promises).
The game explicitly states that the Shannon personality solved the epitaph years ago, "became Beatrice", and seems to be the Beatrice we know of. On top of that, the servants know this (that is, the seven sister's servants). At least, that's the only way I can decipher one of the scenes with Shannon and the maid corp (AND KINZO) recognizing her as Beatrice. It's worth mentioning that this Yasushkannontrice is not in charge of things here.
Thing to note: Lion/Leon/Lyon/whateverstickingwithLion is Yasu, just with a better upbringing (or, rather, not getting punted off a fucking cliff). This fragment with Lion existing lacks any form of a tragedy since Battler doesn't return to Rokkenjima. However, I wonder if his return would even matter in a fragment with Lion.
Also, while at it, they do a damned good job of hiding Lion's gender. All references to (s)he are as neutral as possible. Even Jessica is confused at her own sibling's gender. Which is pretty awkward if you think about it.
Now the super fucking weird part? This fragment has Shannon and Kanon. It also has Lion. This is totally fucking illogical as all hell. Lion-after-dropped-from-cliff forms Shannon and Kanon so they should not exist if Lion exists. Then again, this IS a clusterfuck fragment formed by Bernkastel so it's possible that there's some shenanigans done that puts Shkannon there with Lion. Again, Lion spends the entire game confused as to who the hell the two of them are as if they're not supposed to be there.
That and this world seems to have some weird issue with barriers between the gameboard and the meta-world. Will travels between the two freely and Lion can plainly interact with Bernkastel. It's possible every Shkannon use is a meta-world thing. Or maybe Lion is still fucking broken though not enough to incite the deaths of everyone? I have no idea.
...
I can't help but feel someone's yanking someone's chain. It's both bluntly spelled out and yet ambiguous as hell at the same time. And there's a bloody fucking submarine and the RSI (Repubblica Sociale Italiana) and oh my god what the fuck?[/spoiler]
Shorter version of the above:
[spoiler]Shkannontrice pretty much confirmed. Lion is considered genderless. This could still be a massive troll. There's an awesome submarine and Nazi gold.
Also, Beatrice isn't the murderer/culprit.[/spoiler]
So, thoughts:
[spoiler]Assuming this Shkannontrice thing pans out as it's shown in Game 7 ... it makes something odd. Beatrice isn't a murderer despite her claims (Rule Z, possibly? Everyone thinks it's Beatrice, a parallel to Higurashi's Rule Z*) so Battler's sin makes little sense. I mean, if it causes Beatrice to spring into action ... so what? She isn't the lead role. Yet, Battler returning is the cause of the tragedy.
*Higurashi Rule Z: The fear will be instigated by suspecting the Sonozaki's bluff that they are behind everything.
Of course, maybe some odd loophole can be done where "Beatrice" doesn't do any killing but Yasu/Shannon/Kanon does. Still, let's roll with the idea that this entity isn't in charge of things. If Battler's return is the cause of everything (evidenced by Game 7's peaceful 1986 without Battler around) AND Beatrice isn't the culprit, why does the culprit spring into action here? Or who is this culprit?
I keep returning to Kyrie, really ... yet Battler claims the solution is wrong. Or maybe he just meant the motive is off (since the motive is pretty much: "I'm a greedy terrible person") ... though that'll be a pretty lame Game 8 if it's just correcting a missed motive.
I hope everything in this game is wrong and is Bernkastel trolling. Or, you know, us trolling since we're also her piece and presumably the true GM of this Game. Remember, Bernkastel "made" us her piece during the first game.
[/spoiler]
Return to “Discussion Section”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests